CTA Tattler

The CTA also doen't mention that this is the first step in their master plan to link the Douglas line with the Brown Line once it is improved.

So there will be less trains on the loop/O'hare leg of the blue line? Great, the trains will be even more crowded at rush hour.

So half of the Blue Line will be added to the already crowded Loop elevated tracks? Orange, Brown, Green, Purple, Blue. Look forward to more stalled trains and "waiting for signals ahead" messages.

Looking at the map, it would totally make sense to extend the Brown Line to be the Cermak/Kimball line once all the improvements are made.

Or to combine the Orange & Brown.

Of course, there's a lot more logistics involved than I can possibly know, but it is weird that the Brown just toots around the Loop and heads back the way it came.

I think this map http://www.transitchicago.com/news/newspostdescs/120700.gif
shows what CTA planners are aiming for.
Interesting that the purple line wouldn't share the brown line's tracks any more. Looks like it would go in the subway, how --I don't know.

The conceptual plan (from the post above) is pretty interesting, and it shows what's missing from the Cermak like being rerouted - a transfer stop at the Eisenhower / Congress line. But until that exists, changing the routing of that branch seems like it could cause just as many headaches as it solves ...

The overall plan is part of the Circle Line. The Orange Line would only run on two sides of the Loop, then continue up to Kimball. Brown Line trains would completely circle the Loop before heading out the Cermak/Douglas branch of the Blue Line. Purple Line trains would go down into the Red Line subway at the same point the Red Line does (South of Armitage) and then come back up the 13th St Incline (the old ramp up from when the Green and Red lines were arranged Howard-Englewood-Jackson Park (63rd )and Lake-Dan Ryan. See http://www.chicago-l.org/plans/CircleLine.html for a better summary.

ian you make some interesting points, I never looked at the reconfiguration of the elevated loop.
Although, using the conceptual plan, I can't really understand why transit planners and engineers would want to run differnt train lines on the same track. (orange-brown, red-purple, brown-green, brown-silver)...
It seems like all these overlaps are just problems waiting to happen.
PS. I realize that the conceptual plan has not been finalized in any way shape or form, I'm just commenting on a conceptual plan!

Actually, HV, there will be the same or more trains from the O'Hare branch downtown. You'll see no decrease in service. What this change does is greatly increase the frequency of trains on the Cermak and Forest Park branches, because right now they split. Anyone who has taken the blue line west knows what it feels like to run down the subway stairs only to see that the waiting train is going to the WRONG branch, and you have 10-15 minutes more to wait.

And as far as the loop itself goes, the trains will run clockwise, meaning they will be interspersed with the less-frequent Green, Orange, and Purple rather than the very frequent brown line trains. What's happening is balancing the demands on both rings of the loop. Think of it this way, between 8am and 9am ...

Counterclockwise TODAY at Clark/Lake
-- 18 brown + 8 green = 26 total trains
Clockwise TODAY at Clark/Lake
-- 5 purple + 10 orange = 15 total trains

At Washington/Wells, it looks like this

Counterclockwise
-- 18 brown = 18 total trains
Clockwise
--5 purple + 10 orange = 15 total trains

With the new Cermak line service running 6 trains/hour, those numbers will look like this:

Clark/Lake
-- from 15 to 21 trains clockwise, vs. 26 counterclockwise

Washington/Wells
-- from 15 to 21 trains clockwise, vs. 18 counterclockwise.

tommy: Two reasons. One is convenience. People would rather just step off one train and onto another, without having to walk between stations. Under this plan, for example, North/Clybourn would be one multi-track "super-station" for five lines, rather than having passengers go from the subway for the Red, Purple, and Circle Lines to the Sedgewick el for the Brown (Kimball-Douglas) and Orange (Kimball-Midway). The other is cost: it is much cheaper to use existing lines than build more new ones.

While I think linking the Cermak branch with the Brown line through the Paulina connector makes sense (in addition to extending the Orange up to Kimball), I've yet to see a compelling case made for the Circle Line.

Sure, a Brown/Orange/Red transfer station at Clybourn would be excellent considering the growth in that area. However, if one looks at the map and envisions various transit scenarios today versus with the CL in place, I can't see that very many commuters benefit considering the cost.

For example, let's say I want to get from the Belmont red line station to O'Hare. Right now, I could either take the Belmont bus to the Belmont blue line station and then ride the Blue to O'Hare. Or, I could ride the Red to Washington and transfer through the underground tunnel to the Blue, then ride the Blue to O'Hare. On the face of it, riding all the way downtown just to head back north seems to be a waste of time. However, what is the alternative the Circle line presents?

First, ride the Red to Clybourn. Then transfer to the Circle line, which if I'm bringing luggage, entails taking my things from one train to the next much as one would do downtown at Washington. No big deal. However, once I've caught a Circle line train, I have to then transfer to a third train at Division. So I've traded transferring my bags once for transferring them twice and having to wait for two trains to arrive for waiting for three trains. In the end, I might or might not save a little time, but what is the cost of 'might'? Hundreds of millions of dollars, which could be spent on projects that actually would benefit riders. Looking at most other transfer scenarios allegedly improved by the existence of the CL, the time savings benefits are almost uniformly tiny compared with just transferring downtown using the existing infrastructure.

From what I've read most of the supposed benefits of the CL either could exist without a new line being built (ie new transfer stations at North/Clybourn and at Chinatown, linking the Cermak branch with the Brown), don't present an actual benefit upon review (ie the example I've laid out above) or would benefit very few riders (ie Easier transfers between the El and Metra).

Instead of creating a redundant new line (and let's not forget that Kruesi also wants to create a massively wasteful 'express' line to O'Hare), it would seem to make more sense to use the money to drastically improve the CTA's IT infrastructure (ie bus and train tracking), extend the red line (PDF), convert the Metra Electric on the south side to the 'gray line', purchase more new low emissions buses and a fleet of smaller, cheaper-to-operate buses for off peak hours, and/or create more 'X' express routes through important corridors in the city.

I think the single most effective rail change on the North Side would be to build a line connecting the Wilson Red Line station, heading west to connect with the Brown Line at Damen, sharing the track with the Brown Line to Kimball, and then continuing on to connect with the Blue Line at Jefferson Park and then terminating to O'Hare (the Blue Line tracks have a lot more capacity now that Cermak trains will not be heading north to O'Hare anymore!).

This would add a much needed East-West connection through the North Side and make getting to O'Hare a lot easier for those of us who live North of the Loop.

I don't understand why people are so intent on arguing for an east-west connector on the north side so that people can "get to O'Hare" faster. The bus system on the main east-west boulevards are more than sufficient.. The poster above who is clamouring for a red line offshoot that goes from Wilson to Jefferson park is simply ridiculous. The Lawrence Ave bus runs 24 hours/day and takes you directly to Jefferson Park with no problem (or any of the main roads - Belmont, Addison, Irving Park Montrose- heading west from the lake). There are so many other needs in the city that are more important than a wasteful investment in the amount it would take to build the infrastructure required for the 'eL' or any urban train system.

Why are people in this country so against taking the bus? I'd rather the city invest in low-emission/alternative fuel buses than the 'money-pit' of an eL extension

That being said, I think there is some need for a pseudo circle line that takes away from the limiting Sunburst pattern of the 'eL'. The current layout of the city reflects smart growth, urban living along eL stops, and an added circle line could be the impetus for certain impoverished areas to see a housing/urban renewal. Something connecting the western edge of downtown Chicago, possibly utilizing the area around the Metra tracks to run due south, connecting the Brown, with the Blue (O'Hare spur) and eventually the green, then utilizing the Green line track to head toward the 'loop'.

Urban planning is fun when you don't have to worry about budgets or realistically trying to pay for it. I suddenly feel like a George Bush Republican.

Two other bad assumptions in Matt's proposal:
The O'Hare branch's frequency is not being decreased (according to the CTA's proposal); the Congress (Forest Park) branch's frequency is being increased to match O'Hare's.
Even if the link between Kimball and Forest Glen were feasible, why couldn't Red Line passengers transfer at Belmont? Why also destroy the neighborhoods along Wilson or Lawrence Ave. (and presumably run an L through Truman College)?

When I lived in West Rogers Park, I used the Foster bus for this purpose.

Those of us “clamouring” for an E-W rail connector just want a good system (rather than the merely decent one that we now have).

I have nothing against using buses; in fact I use them frequently, including the 92 and 84 to get over to the Blue Line (I live in Rogers Park). The problem is that any good transit system will utilize buses for local transportation, not long distance runs. The CTA’s percentage of bus riders vs. percentage of rail riders should be reversed. Buses are SLOW. Rail is FAST(er). More people will ride if it is faster.

I understand the concern over disrupting the neighborhood (jackonthebus - I think “destroying the neighborhood” is a bit alarmist) during the construction of the new rail segments. But anytime anything is done there is a disruption. Mere disruption is not a good reason to not make improvements. There are ways of mitigating any disruption. Maybe a street level, light rail line would make more sense than building a full-out elevated heavy rail line.

I agree that there are more important projects that need to be focused on (such as maintaining the current system, rebuilding much of the Red Line and investing in cleaner fuel buses), but that shouldn’t stop us from putting forth “big picture” ideas.

The destroying the neighborhood remark was based on that since the Red and Brown lines are elevated at the points at which you intended to connect them, this would undoubtedly require an elevated connection, which would require creating a right of way that does not exist, requring demolition, or covering Wilson Ave. with an elevated structure (which sure contributed to the health of 63rd Street). When the Brown Line was built, most of the land along Leland was still undeveloped.