CTA Tattler

Not only that, but the tilt-a-whirl description describes a ride on the CTA. I'm just waiting for the day someone is thrown to the floor. That or the day MY train is the one that leaves the tracks and plummets two stories. Like the Orange line right by the CPD HQ.

Yeah, nothing makes getting to work after having to let 3 trains go by before there was one I could board better than getting here and reading Crains' summary that absolutely nothing has happened or is likely to happen.

Grarrarrrrarrrrrghgghhhhh. Sigh.

As long as you throw up before you get on the El or after you leave...

We all know it's more about ego. It could well be that a deal *is* all but done and they're just trying to figure out a way each can take credit for it. (And it sounds like Daley's already done that.)

I like the real Tilt-a-Whirl--but that's in summer. This round & round, never the same direction, for the mind, morale, etc., is terrible. A good description, now that you mention it! I am damn tired of it, too.
C'mon, guys, get your heads out into the light!

Raise ridership fees ! Everyone has to pay icreases in taxes and fees, why shouldn't ridership.

Ed:
What the hell are you talking about? What train jumped the tracks and fell off the elevated structure?

Eman:

Because higher fares would discourage people from using transit.

The whole point of subsidizing transit is to encourage people to get out of their cars, which are rapidly poisoning our air and which cause endless traffic jams that cost us billions of dollars in economic inefficiency from wasted time and fuel.

Raising taxes and fees, on the other hand, may or may not be a bad thing, depending on what you're raising taxes and fees on. I tend to think a sales tax is a bone-headed way to raise government revenue, since you're disincentivising economic activity. A more targetted sales tax (e.g., on gasoline or parking) would be better, since it would disincentivise behavior that harms the public. Still better would just be a higher and more progressive income tax, since it would focus taxes on those who are most able to pay them.

But raising fares would be the worst of all for transit. Public transit users are already doing a service to the rest of the public by avoiding driving; there's no sense in charging them extra for the privilege.

The only time I've heard of a train falling off the tracks was when a Green line(Lake St.) train hit the Brown line (Ravenswood) some time in the 70's. I wasn't born then so I've only heard second hand stories of this accident. I can see how riding the Brown line could feel like being on a tilt-a-whirl.

I like the idea of a targeted sales tax on parking. I don't know... lets say an extra $.25/car/day in a parking facility. Just a thought.

Now the transit unions are saying maybe we need to see what Doomsday will look like:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/transportation/652473,111507cta.article

I personally think maybe its time for a transit union strike. Shut the entire system down for a day or two and force the leaders to pass the damn transit bill. Bring the city and a good part of the region ot its knees. If Pace and Metra join in as well, the impact will be huge. I think it might be the only thing left that will force them to act. Doomsday, even as massive the cuts are, still keeps the system hobbling along. It will be a problem, but I'm afraid it will not create widespread anger and outrage from voters.

it'd be really interesting if the transit workers did strike - and the riders joined them (hey if you can't get to work anyway, you might as well join them). Let's totally cripple the region for a few days and see how long it takes them to stop acting like 4 year olds once they see how much money the state is losing and get something done.

According to latest news reports Daley is finally starting to talk tough. If he keeps it up, he's on schedule for about once a year that he does something to partly redeem himself in my eyes. Methinks he's got a card or two to play.

Daley is also right that anybody taking public transit and not driving is contributing something by that very act, beyond the fare they pay.

On taxing parking and gas, the downside to that is that you are taxing something specific that you say you want to have less of. If that happens, then the revenues from it will go down, and you're back where you started. I favor the sales tax in this case. Transit is not just about rides, it benefits everyone, it's the underpinning of a vital downtown, city and regional economy, and if that goes to hell in a handbasket then so do sales. And sales tax is also widespread. As a general rule I would rather see taxes lowered because it ultimately leads to greater tax revenues, but we have to have a reliable solution to this funding gap right now. Seeing that put in place could have a positive effect on economic activity, which means a steady or upward trend in revenue rather than a downward one.

The unions are not wrong to raise the issue of having their own doomsday. They stepped up and made a deal to help solve the pension problem, now the legislative bozos are going to throw it away. I'll stand with them on this one.

I think a "job action" would be FANTASTIC (they are not allowed to "strike"). Seriously, do it. Do it tomorrow.

well Josh, WGN just said this "job action" could happen after Thanksgiving (i.e. probably in December?? so we might see it sooner than we think), and it would more likely be a "slow down" of trains/buses... Things are just going to get more interesting, methinks.

And like CC said, they were told to get the pension thing solved -- by our LOVELY general assembly -- now the GA isn't holding up its end of the bargain? WRONG.

"On taxing parking and gas, the downside to that is that you are taxing something specific that you say you want to have less of. If that happens, then the revenues from it will go down, and you're back where you started."

I've seen this argument in a few places now. It's kind of an odd one. Think how much the price of gas has gone up in the last decade and the modest impact that's had on people's driving.

So, while taxing gas or parking more would hopefully have a some influence over people's habits, the idea that it is going to *eliminate* driving is silly. Among other things, many people don't have access to public transit - or public transit does not take them everywhere they need to go. So disincentives for driving may persuade people to reduce their reliance on cars, but outside of a handful of cities, people seldom have the option of abandoning their cars altogether.

And anyway, suppose for a moment that a gas tax caused people to stop driving altogether in Chicago. My god, what a wonderful place the city would become! Air pollution would plummet! So many people would be taking public transit that buses would run every couple minutes on every route throughout the day, and all routes would likely run 24 hours a day. We could turn a lot of streets into pedestrian areas. Traffic accidents would be almost unheard of. In short, we should only hope for such a revolution in our quality of life. Once this happens, and revenue from the gas tax no longer brings in any revenue, then sure - then I'd support some other kind of tax to fund public transit. And since everybody would rely on transit 100% of the time, transit funding would be a political no brainer.

In reality, gas and parking taxes would probably reduce traffic by at most a couple percentage points, but would bring in plenty of money for transit.

Sarah, can I work for your company? The one I work for now seems to want me there daily even if I think I should boycott the CTA.

Bob S., suck it up for a day. You'll get to work, it will just take longer. This happens like yearly in New York, it seems. Everyone survives, but it always makes the desired point, which is a demonstration of chaos without public transit.

I wish they could actually strike. Maybe a bit of the "Blue Flu" for the CTA. Slow trains will just piss people off. I say shut it down.

And yes, I have a job in the Loop and ride the CTA.

Some folks seem to be talking as if a one-day strike would be some sort of simulation of what would happen without CTA. It wouldn't even come close.

Heck, if people had advance notice, a significant number of them would treat it as a chance to get things done at home. It might be an inconvineance to have a day off, but it would just be an impromtu holiday for many.

Perhaps it might help emphisis what the city would be without transit, but it wouldn't come close to demonstrating how a lack of long-term, stable funding for transit would hurt the region.

And I very much doubt that it would do anything to encourage the solution we need.

Ultimately a transit worker's strike would be as pointless as the soundbites we're getting from politicians who are more flash than substance.

Or if you want to talk about a riders strike instead of a transit workers strike, it just ain't going to happen. If there was anyone out there who could actually rally such an occasion, they'd already be using that power to get things done.

"And anyway, suppose for a moment that a gas tax caused people to stop driving altogether in Chicago. My god, what a wonderful place the city would become! Air pollution would plummet! So many people would be taking public transit that buses would run every couple minutes on every route throughout the day, and all routes would likely run 24 hours a day."

That's all well and good, but it would also be the case that the economy would screech to a virtual halt and numerous businesses would close. Many people have rightly pointed out that public transportation is extreamly important to the chicago area's economy. But it is worthwhile to remember that private transportation is even more so.

Bob S.,

Hi, I was speaking hypothetically, thanks.

I realize that most people are too afraid to lose their jobs to take action on anything that matters to them.

Some of us have NO OTHER WAY to get to work besides the CTA, so if it really, truly ever does get shut down, do you think a bunch of companies are going to do mass firings? Come on.

I wonder if nextbus ever submitted a proposal for the very expensive GPS test drive coming later this century.

http://www.nextbus.com

http://townhall.townofchapelhill.org/agendas/2006/06/12/5g/5g-3_cost_comparison.htm

My understanding is that the bus tracker project is being performed by Clever Devices, the ones who designed and installed the automated anunciation/GPS system. There were short and long term cost savings because of the need to integrate all of the various systems operating on the bus, as opposed to buying separate equipment and transmitters from different companies for each function and then having to maintain all of them separately.

Sarah and Josh should both read Rusty's analysis; I'll mostly leave it at that, aside from pointing out that if a supposed "rally" can't even attract more than a couple of hundred riders, talk of a riders' boycott is more ludicrous than hypothetical.

MK-

As things are now, private transportation is what moves most people around. I was responding to an odd hypothesis that a higher gas tax might cause people to stop driving altogether, thus making it a poor choice as a source of revenue because it would cause its own demise.

In this highly counterfactual world, private transportation wouldn't be that important to the economy, except to move goods around. Since it would be more expensive to move merchandise around, prices would certainly go up a bit all around, but that would probably be more than offset for most people by the fact that they'd be saving thousands of dollars a year by exclusively using public transit and therefore not paying all the costs associated with having a car.

But anyhow, unless someone thinks there's a chance we might get a gas tax of 1000% or more, this is not a universe we need to spend much more time thinking about. A (realistic) gas tax would be an economically perfectly feasible source of revenue for public transit.

How exactly would a boycott help or convince Republican/downstate lawmakers that the CTA was worthwhile? More likely, it would just convince them of everything they already think or believe about public transit and instigate legislation to dismantle public transport altogether, since people can live without it and it is so bad that the transit riders want to boycott it.

Who was EVER talking about a riders boycott? Not one person in this thread, except those saying it wouldn't work. Of course it wouldn't work. It's the same as boycotting buying gasoline. It's a foolish idea, and that's why no one mentioned it.

Skeptical:

I think you are misunderstanding the problems that are going on in the legislature. It isn't that the downstate representatives don't think the CTA is worthwhile. It is the exact opposite. They know that it is extreamly important to the city, so therefore they realize that the leadership is not going to let any major service cuts happen. They know that the importance of the issue gives them a chance to demand some benefits for their areas in exchange for their votes. The problem isn't that they don't realize the importance of the CTA. It is that they are getting involved in something that is not their business since they know that the procedure allows them to vote even though nothing in the original legislation proposed affected them (the tax increase was just for the city and suburbs). The other major problem is the suburban representatives feel that public transportation is not really that important to their disticts and are essentually engaging in the same stratagy as the downstate legislatures, and they are also demanding that there are fare hikes. I think that is extreamly risky since while it is true the percentage of people in the suburbs that regularly ride public transportation is pretty small compared to the city, it is still a sizable ridership. I don't think it is a good idea for the suburban representatives to get all these people mad. They may be getting some angry phone calls from people who would not like a tax increase but I think most people realize it is pretty small. And there are people who don't use public transportation who understand that it benefits them in several ways, such as reducing congestion.

Oh, and I should also have pointed out that another problem is that Blagojevich, Madigan, and Jones have shown a complete lack of leadership on this. In fact, I think they are even more to blame than the suburban and downstate legislators. It is their job to lead the state and try to forge a consensious and they have completely failed dismally. If anyone does not fully understand the importance of the CTA it is these three idiots. They are the people who are supposed to be representing the folks that use the CTA most frequently. But they apperantly did not even start to address the issue until a few months ago, well after they had been told that they had to do something.

And let's not forget that it's only because of the incompetence of those three (Blago, Jones, Madigan) that the downstate and suburban legislators are so important. If those three had done their jobs and addressed this 10 months ago, a solution could be passed with a simple majority vote, rather than a 3/5 vote.

Of course, they could still pass SB572 with a simple majority and make the governor put up or shut up, but it would have an effective date of 6/1/08.

I really hate it when the train tilts on a 45 degree angle around China town/Roosevelt (elevated Red Line) and Roosevelt/Adams :-S