CTA Tattler

Yet another reason I don't take the El.

A loud (not yelling) "Hey, move your hand. Stop touching me." usually resolves the immediate problem and leaves me still feeling in control of my space and body. It probably doesn't really do anything about the longterm problem.

There are some situations where the police should be called, especially if you see the same guy doing it day after day.

This particular tactic you described is a quite common one - hand under the paper, you're not sure if he is even touching you, then you're not sure if it is on purpose, then you realize exactly what he is doing and are shocked and almost embarrassed (that you didn't realize it right away). Just take control and address it. "Stop touching me" or "Would you move your hand away from me" or "Is there something you wanted in my pocket?" Any spoken comment will do.

Hello? She took a picture instead of saying anything to him? This behavior is unacceptable, and you're in a public place. Next time, yell loudly to stop touching you or, say, "This man is trying to fondle my leg." In a train community of dozens, people will notice.

Also, no. No one has to "put up with" that kind of behavior. And yell I would - I'm not going to speak softly about this one. Why would you?

ADD is right. Not too long ago I was on a very crowded Blue Line train on my way to work and there was someone close behind me. I didn't pay much attention because this is pretty much my every morning commute to work -- I count as a good day the ones where I can get on a train without letting 5 go by, pretty much regardless of my personal space. Anyways, that day, this professional-looking guy was all scrunched up tight behind me and after a few minutes I realized there was something there that shouldn't have been. I shifted position as much as I could a few times, but he kept following suit. I couldn't turn around and address him directly because the train was so packed. By the time I'd figured out that what was happening was what I thought it was, we pulled in to Clark and Lake and he scrambled off the train with the other 100 of my closest friends. It's just hard to make a timely response because at first it's just "whatever, crowded L car," then it's "that's can't be what I think it is," and finally it's "oh my god, it *is* what I think it is," and it's taken you 5 minutes to catch on and you're horribly embarassed.

Still, if I had a chance, I would really stomp on that guy's instep. It was really, really nasty, and ruined my mood for that whole morning.

Sabrina -- you're not alone. That's happened to me several times on crowded buses and trains -- and every time it's a minute or two before I realize "holy crap -- that *is* what I think it is..." It's the most disgusting thing and I've even said loudly "will you please stop rubbing up against my a**" and, well, some guys are just perverted enough that nothing short of a punch in the nose will get them to wise up.

Yet another thing to look forward to if the service cuts go into effect and the buses get even more crowded...

I was sitting in a window seat once on a northbound Brown Line when this happened to me. I felt something poking my right thigh, and finally realized it was the man next to me. I was wearing thick pants, so it took me awhile. He had his hand underneath his briefcase, which was across his lap. I was so shocked that I got off the train immediately (not at my stop). I wish I had said something that day!

Now I watch both hands of every man that I sit next to.

Unwanted personal touching happens all too often on crowded trains and buses. Sometimes it's intentional; sometimes it's not. Often, the intentional unwanted touching is directed at an adolescent female who the pervert assumes, often rightly, is too frightened to speak up. I would not judge the young lady in this incident too harshly. I would suggest that the gentlemen out there who are not perverts speak up when they see something. I had an experience with intentional, flagrently inappropriate contact, a few years ago on a nearly empty train at 10am on a Sunday morning. I had no problem addressing the perv loudly and obviously. Most of my ire, however, was directed at the young man who watched the whole thing go down. I asked him how he would feel if it was his sister/mom/grandma/girlfriend who was being molested and he knew that someone else watched and didn't say anything to stop it. Unfortunately, many younger or less assertive females are afraid to speak up and may be scarred for life by this experience. I take the bus to the school where I work and I often say something or give the evil teacher glare to some guy who's obviously got bad intentions.

This happens on uncrowded trains and buses too. The first time it happened I didn't say anything, but when it happened years later I did exactly what everyone says to do. I told him in a firm, loud voice to get his hands off of me and to move away. He did without a fight, but I was heartened to see a man halfway across the car stand up, ready to help if he hadn't. It was nice to know I had backup.

I agree with ADD... that happened to me and i didn't notice it until his elbow was jabbing in the thigh. A loud "Excuse you" in a train packed with people surely got his attention and the attention of the people standing around us.

I would guess this has happened to 90% of the women and some of the men (but I wouldn't a percentage on the men, you guys will have to speak up if it's happened to you). Yeah, a loud "Get your hands off me" works.

Everyone's brain works a little differently. Of course the first priority is to stop the unwanted touching, and a good, loud, "get your hands off of me" will work as well as anything.

But the perv may actually enjoy being caught and yelled at by his victim as much as (or maybe more than) the act itself. So from his perspective, just getting yelled at may be even better than copping a feel without getting caught. (But remember, the primary objective is to get his hands off of you at that moment.)

My point is that yelling at the perv is part of the solution, but it's only halfway there. Be sure to report these instances, too.

Of course the perv is probably going to be gone before you can even make the report. And it may seem like no one is interested in doing anything at the moment you report it. But those reports do, when put together with all the other similar reports, show a pattern. A pattern that will make it easier to eventually catch the guy in the act.

Oh, sure, there's probably some pervs out there who are so over the edge, getting arrested will thrill them, too. But for the most part, even the guys who get off on being caught don't want an arrest record for a sex crime.

And guys... if you see something like this happening, say something. If you mistakenly call-out a consensual couple for touching in public, everyone's just a little embarased. That embarasment is far outweighed by the value of stopping a sexual assult. And guys... don't be afraid to report it as well.

And by reporting it, I mean anything from pressing the magic button for immediate help, all the way down to a post-event call to CTA customer service, depending on the situation.

What happened, on what train/bus, when, where, and describe who did it. You don't need to be qualified to get a job at Great America guessing weights and heights. What they were wearing is important. Especially coats and jackets, as people are less likely to change these before the next time. Camera phones are good, too! Don't forget you have yours. If you can get one of the guy in the act, and one of his face, you're golden.

I have had plenty of bad experiences on the L, but i would have to say the worst was almost like this young lady's. This guy, clean cut, well groomed, sat next to me. It was a tight fit, i scooched closer to the window and thought nothing more of it. Then his elbow kept ramming me in the hip. I looked down and his hand was under a newspaper. In my head, I thought the same thing.. " No..he..isnt..." The elbow jabbing kept coming at faster intervals.. I looked at him and said " you've got to be ****ing kidding me" and left the seat. I moved to the other side of the car, heart racing... and then another group of guys began harassing me that I didn't want to sit next to the pervert b/c of his 'race.' After my breif moment of empowerment I had to leave the train car anyway. Sometimes as a woman on the L, we cannot be assured that our fellow passengers will have our back in situations like this. I think that may be even scarier than the harrassment itself..

any guys that do this sound like total douchebags.

and Steph, the guys who then ripped on you for moving, that's just simply ridiculous.

when I hit someone on accident (especially in the leg, ass, etc.) I say sorry and then I usually feel kind of embarrassed that it happened... and I definitely don't want them to think I'm doing it on purpose...

This situation is eminently susceptible of self-help. Women aren't wilting flowers unable to speak up on their own behalf. If the train truly is crowded, just embarrass the creep by calmly but loudly saying "that's the second time you put your hand on my thigh."

If the train's mostly empty it may be another story - then you might want to move to another car and think about whether to call the police.

Martha,

If I was on the train and saw this happening, I wouldn't speak out on behalf of the woman. If a guy has enough balls to attempt to somewhat inappropriately graze some part of a woman's body in the middle of a public train, I have no interest in confronting the guy and potentially getting assaulted by someone who's obviously not quite right in the head, all for your benefit. You're a big girl -- take care of yourself!

Reporting it doesn't stop it when it's happening, and doesn't help it after the fact. Yelling about it does. Who cares if it gets him off that you yelled at him (and that's not very likely anyway). It gets other people's attention. Don't suffer in silence, let people know. That goes for all these adults too, in crowded standing situations. Why not speak up?

Hey, Mr. Reasonable:
I did take care of myself. I'm more concerned about those who don't have the confidence to be a "big girl" or a big boy, for that matter. I've spoken up on behalf of other women and, one time, a guy who was getting his wallet lifted. It's not a gender issue. It's about being a concerned human being and not letting crap happen to other people because it isn't happening to you or you're afraid of confrontation. There is safety in numbers and empathy can be a powerful thing.

you tell 'im, Martha!!!!

Reasonable Man said: "If I was on the train and saw this happening, I wouldn't speak out on behalf of the woman."

(Wow. Talk about the irony in his handle!)

If that's how you feel, I hope you won't come crying to anyone when all the witnesses to a crime against you put their heads in the sand, too. That's not how a responsible member of society acts.

Anna said: "Reporting it doesn't stop it when it's happening, and doesn't help it after the fact."

If more people bothered to report crime, police services could be more effective in preventing future crime.

Not only does reporting it help demonstrate what is a problem, and where it's a problem, once they catch the guy, having a pile of reports of similar incidences that the person in custody could be charged with puts the state in a better postion to get the guy the punishment he deserves.

One perv arrested for touching a woman's leg is going to get no punishment. But if there are twenty-five reports of a similar thing happening in the last two weeks in the same part of the system, with descriptions of the same guy, then something will happen.

It's not just about stopping the act when it happens. It's about preventing future acts, and matching the consequences more closely to the crime. Yelling out when it happens is only the first step.

If you aren't reporting it after the fact, you're contributing to the pain and suffering of future victims. Again, it's about being a responsible member of society.

If we're not in this together, then the road will be more difficult than it has to be.

I had an experience with frottage once on the Red Line when it was really crowded. In response, I jabbed the perp with my high heeled boots, right in the middle of his foot.

Sadly, that was not the first or last time I have been harrassed on the EL.

Not only do girls tend to make up stuff to make their stories about their experiences worse so they can feel like they're also a "victim", but they expect some random guys to come to their defense at every little whim -- why? If they want to scream and let everyone know what's going on, people will help them. Even if they can't take care of themselves. But the idea that if they're too meek they'll have to fight it out alone is kind of stupid. If they can't speak up, no one will help them -- true. But that's true for anything.

For people like Martha -- you're not really sticking it to random guys by attempting to excoriate their lack of involvement. You're just pissing people off by asserting that guys should have more at stake in defending random women against random grazing than is reasonable. No one believes you're up against this big bad slightly-touching guy that often, and, even then, it doesn't sound that bad. Just move.

(T)AG--you must be the "gentleman" on the OS&RR site, too--you have much the same outlook & idiocy as that guy. Ignore him, people--he's a 1st class troll!

Seems likely that "Reasonable Man" and "Asshole Guy" are the same person. Apparently Man/Guy has some axe to grind about society in general and is using the Tattler as his forum. All the world's a stage and the men and women mere riders on it....

I know this is an old post, but still.

I have pretty long hair, and most days I wear it down. the other day, I was sitting in one of those single seats, and there's a guy behind me in the other one. I could have sworn I felt him stroking my hair. so creepy. I pulled it all over my shoulder.