CTA Tattler

I wasn't there, but I know that plenty of times on the Blue LIne, when we pull into a stop but the train is not fully in the station, the conductor has to tell people not to open the doors themselves because the train is not yet full in. The CTA communication is poor, but I definitely think more people are taking it upon themselves to open the doors. This will end badly one day, I think.

Going by tmeyer's account on the right side of the blog, the riders waited *an hour* before getting off the train, which would make Huberman's "we could have done it in 25 minutes" a little suspect.

I was on the train. If the service could have been restored in 25 minutes, I don't know how. After 3 unsuccessful attempts of using the train I was on (the train behind the stalled train) to PUSH the stalled train into Clark and Lake, it was pretty obvious that they had no clue on what to do. At what point would they have made the call to evacuate because they didn't know what to do next? I don't think anyone would have. If those people hadn't started the self evacuation, we could have been down there for the more than 2 hours we were there already!

So where was the CTA's crack new communication team? They've been talking for weeks about the new communications chief, the new plan to communicate with customers and the revamped website. Why didn't they take advantage of this tool? The website had a customer alert post, updated at 9:20am, that said service was stopped, and to take #56 bus. Nothing on the home page to alert riders to this major shutdown. The post was unchanged, and unupdated, until 12:15, when they posted that service was resumed at 12:00. No updates during the three hours, no additional information, like there were shuttle buses available or situation status quo we're still working on it. Nothing. It wouldn't have helped those stuck in the tunnel, but would have been helpful for those planning to ride. As it was, the post was so old, I thought CTA just forgot to update. You can't tell me everyone was out in the stations directing customers. So what's improved about their communications?

By night time rush, though, they did have a front page link to an alert apologizing and saying that service was back to normal. Good move, except it didn't have the added info (which I found in the press release and on the news) that CTA was giving free riders to riders boarding in the Blue Line Loop stations that evening.

I was there, and for what it's worth, our conductor did a pretty good job of keeping us informed about what was going on, to the point where he said "I know I'm repeating myself, but...." The first self-exiting passenger I saw was about an hour into it, a lone gentleman walking towards the Clark/Lake direction (we were between Grand and Clark/Lake). About 20 minutes later, I saw a few more people, but for the most part, the passengers on my train stayed put. We did open the doors to get some air, because for the last 90 minutes or so, the power was off (due to passengers on the catwalk? I don't know). I have to commend everyone on my car, as they were all in very good spirits, given the situation, with a woman offering doughnuts, people offering to switch with standing passengers, and others letting people use cell phones that had reception.

In 2006 when the first Blue Line incident occurred, Kruesi and Phil Cline and Daley were falling all over themselves congratulating themselves on how no one was killed and thousands were spirited to safety. Yesterday we learned that one of those passengers who was almost killed got a million dollar settlement. I was on a train once that overshot Paulina and the front car doors opened over the street. I've been on platforms that were dangerously overcrowded. On numerous occasions I've entered stations and waited a long time for a train only to finally hear about a huge delay the station agent didn't bother to tell anyone about. Anyone who has ridden the CTA for a while is used to incompetence and lack of ability to communicate. If I'd been down in the dark tunnel on a hot, crowded train with a silent operator, I would have been tempted to "self-evacuate" too.

Sad that the week after the Google partnership was announced and Bus Tracker launched, CTA can't communicate to its passengers using 20th century technology.

Here I go talking about communications and accountability...You'd have thought we were back in the Frank days..blame everyone but yourself.

Ron couldn't have just shut up until he knew what was going on..blame the passengers. It all comes back to communication and accountability...two things the CTA is not good at and doesn't seem to be getting any better....even after an embarrassing DOT report and millions of dollars in payouts for the last time this happened and its just starting....

Then I saw the thing about not enough CTA personnel to help out...probably because 20 of them were standing on the platforms and Fullerton and Belmont and waving at the trains as they came in....

I'd make more comments, but its like shooting fish in a barrel, not much fun and annoys the fish...lol.

KevinB

I was on one of the stuck trains... I just want to know why CTA or CPD or CFD didn't put people on the catwalk at each train? They could have shared what information they had, stopped folks from "self-evacuating", and generally made us feel less like we'd been abandoned. Forget high-tech solutions, just get some bodies with radios out there.

Were the people who self evacuated dumb for getting out? Maybe if you take it out of context.

When the CTA builds a reputation for safety, diligence, and good communication, perhaps then it might be okay to look at the self evacuations in a more critical light.

But, if after 20 minutes, with spotty communication, trapped in a metal sardine can inside a tube, underground...with the CTA's past reputation, and no consistent leadership from the CTA representative on board the train (That would be the motorman. While he operates the train, he is also the face of the CTA when he wears the uniform and draws the paycheck)..in that context, it's really easy to see why someone would take the initiative to get themselves to safety.

Although, by all means...let's look at the flip side. Let's say, nobody self evacuated. Let's say the temp kept rising. Let's say further, someone, just one person dies from the conditional situation on one of these aging tin cans the CTA uses for the EL stuck in the subway. Then we would be talking about how could those people just stand there while someone died of heat stroke?

The CTA does have a responsibility to take control of the situation for the safety of everyone. But, if they don't take that responsibility, then ultimately, your own safety is in your own hands. And I don't care who you are, I have the right to reasonably assess my own level of safety. If I am stuck in an EL car, with no communication, no information, with a temp that is rising, I am going to come to the conclusion that my own safety is threatened.

And in that situation, I have the right to act. And nobody, not even Hubie, Mayor Daley, or John Q. Public posting a comment on a blog can make out a justification for me putting to the side my right to evaluate my own safety in a situation.

The CTA needs to get on the ball, before someone dies. Someone is going to die one of these times, from conditions on the train, or trying to get to safety because the CTA fails to lead in a crisis.

Just my $0.02. No matter where you stand on this issue, the common thread is: the CTA fails when it comes to *consistent* leadership.

The funny/strange/sad thing I read about this incident was the conductor berating the passengers for leaving with comment like "You're all so stupid. You all think you're so smart." Did this really happen???

(Oh, wait, I just read the comments on the right side of this page from someone who was on there, so I guess it did.)

But the upside for me was I got a free ride on the blue line after work as the CTA tried to make up for it... ok, I'm self-serving and self-centered.

But seriously, WTF? What exactly is the training for CTA personnel for emergency situations. Does the CTA need to establish its own quick-response emergency team (from existing personnel) for situations like this, when trains are stuck in a tunnel for more than 20 minutes (and considering the very real possibility that a good percentage of their ridership have health conditions that don't allow for 20 minutes trapped underground)?

Just sayin'

I have nothing but sympathy for the riders who self-evacuated. You can't stuff that many people into a tube and not expect them to start running through death scenarios.

If just *one* car in a train has a faulty speaker, then the people on that car can justifiably freak out. I mean, the only thing the riders can hear through the speaker is "Blalrlbggublah," how do they know the engineer isn't trying to tell them "Run for your lives!"

I hope this doesn't sound hyperbolic, but I really think there needs to be some kind of external investigation into the CTA's failure/inability to communicate with passengers in this situation. The CTA knows how important it is to provide people information in a situation like this, and yet it repeatedly fails to.

The result is that a situation which probably was more scary than truly dangerous is transformed into a situation that truly is very dangerous -- with the lack of information leading to panic and self-help.

My alderman is pretty much useless, but I would encourage people to think about writing to their aldermen to insist that the City Council hold hearings on this. According to the City Council website, the Committee on Transportation and Public Way has jurisdiction over the CTA and the subways.

You can find the committee's membership (with links to contact information), here: http://www.chicityclerk.com/citycouncil/committees/listing.html

I actually think the CTA has been doing a good job lately with the resources it has, but this is such a glaring failure that I just don't think there's any reason to believe that the CTA can fix the problem without outside oversight at this point.

Some sunshine is in order.

I sincerely feel for the people stuck in the subway yesterday. Being stuck in situation like that is one of my worst fears. I'm claustrophobic and being stopped in the tunnels even w/the power on slowly starts to freak me out. So my hat is off to all of them.

Duo & dk took the words right out of my mouth. Well said.

I think the audio systems in the cars needs to be checked more. Personally I report car numbers that have issues in car to various cta employees but i'm never sure that message gets anywhere. This happens all the time for the outdoor car side speakers which when standing at Belmont you generally always hear "wel... aboard brown... run.. ...is next" from quite a few trains.

Does anyone know if it was a 2200 that stalled and caused the issue? If so, go figure. Thats what you get with a rail car from 1969.

these are sort of the points I was trying to make in my earlier post (another thread). The CTA has forgotten the importance of communication; they've tried recently to correct, but it's hard to change old habits. And you always revert to them in crises.
And we've developed our own habits in dealing with the CTA--for example, certain pat announcements are met with disbelief (like "another train is right behind us": oh please!) We know of other accidents, derailments, etc., which makes people reluctant to hang around in what could be a potentially dangerous situation. Like Duo said, I have a right to evaluate my personal safety & leave such a situation when there is no forthcoming information or directions. How do I know the operator is even still ON the train if he hasn't uttered a peep in 30 minutes?

I don't know what I would have done in such a situation or in the 2006 derailment; I'm grateful I haven't had to test myself. I suspect I would follow others out the door, however, after sitting for 30+ minutes in the dark, no word, and a rising temperature. And I would definitely want to take a swing at Huberman or anyone else who told me that it's my fault there was an extra-long delay.
The way I see it is that the CTA fell down again. Clear communication (& kudos to the motormen/women who tried to keep everyone informed) is ESSENTIAL. Radios (or PA systems) that continue to work even after the main power is cut (which was an issue last year) should be high on the purchasing list. We should not have to keep saying this!! Of course, this also assumes the drivers are being kept informed, as well. And that's downright stupid not to do so.

Mr. Huberman--I've had a lot of public service/access jobs--retail, amusement parks, libraries. I have found in my 20 years of employment that telling my customers what exactly is going on, why we have a rule or policy, or that the computer is slow, or I'm on hold with the credit card company, or whatever issue they have, goes a very long way towards keeping them calmer, not to mention keeping them as customers! I really did think you had learned the importance of this after last summer, but apparently not, since I'm hearing the exact same nonsense as I did then.

My suggestion, based on comments from binti & KevinB, is that the CTA should explore arrangements with the police and/or fire dept for these occasions. When a lot of CTA employees are deployed elsewhere (3 track directing, for example), a call to the others should put nice, official, uniformed types out in strategic places to help the riders. With working radios & timely updates, of course. I do agree that such a presence would have cut back on the unauthorized evacuations.

I get more & more reluctant to take L all the time, & am glad that I don't have to these days. But that'll change one day, and I may take up saying the rosary while riding the Blue Line! Asking for divine protection sounds more reliable.

I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere -- but why weren't all trains that were backed up behind the train with a problem moved to a station to let people stay or leave as they saw fit? It seems that this should be an obvious procedure to perform if there's been a train out of commission for more than 10 minutes. I know that the people working on the problem probably think they might have a solution in a few minutes -- but if they're right, then the trains that had to back up to a station are just delayed an extra couple of minutes.

Is there some reason why this is not practicable? Are there more trains than stations? If that is the case, they could take one train to a station, tell everyone to get off, and then move another train in to park.

This won't work for problems like jumpers when they have to shut down power immediately, but it seems that they need a decision grid -- if power is still on and trains have been stuck for 10 minutes, move all trains to a station to await further developments.

Looks like RonH has gone Kruesi on us. I can't believe he made the statement regarding the self-evacuators and how things weren't that bad and the whole mess would have been over by 9am if not for their actions. There were people in the trains who were able to communicate with the outside world by cellphone and could tell friends and co-workers about the increasingly unbearable conditions and total lack of communication. He should have checked all the facts thoroughly before he spoke to the press. I was willing to forgive the ridiculous "inconvenience in the Loop" comment after the July 3 el backup because it was his first major CTA snafu and was followed by a quick admission that he'd screwed up. This is inexcusable and the apology doesn't cut it this time. As I tell my students, a mistake is only stupid when you do it a second time. Next time KevinB savages you, RonH, you're on your own.

For anyone who was on the train - did anyone try to communicate with the silent driver? I haven't heard any mention of call buttons being unanswered.

Whoa!

When I heard about the people jumping off to self-evacuate and the criticism leveled at them, it immediately made me think of the folks in the World Trade Center on 9/11 who were told to stay where they were (100+ stories in the air) and that everything was going to be fine. By the time they realized that everything wasn't going to be fine, it was way too late for them. The people who survived were the ones who took their safety into their own hands and got the hell out of there as soon as things happened. Given the level of incompetence demonstrated by the CTA in handling emergencies, there is no way in hell I am going to rely on them to determine when I should stay or when I should go.

you know those blue lights and buttons on each train car? did anyone use those to communicate with the motorman? seems like that would've been step 1 before trying to self-evacuate. even if they're not communicating with you, you can force the communication with those buttons, no?

blue line doesn't run 2200 cars on the ends during rush hour - only later when the cars are shortened are they sometimes the lead car. hopefully we'll find out in the coming days exactly how this happened.

i got texts/calls from friends stuck in the commute. the one day i had off this week... thank god.

They don't *have* to answer those call buttons. I know they're supposed to, but there's no way to force them to.

I've been thinking about this, and Ron really dropped the ball when he blamed the passengers. It's really bad customer service to blame your customers when things go wrong, even if it is their fault. You can talk about them when they're not able to hear about what you said, but don't do it in front of them.

Just because they don't have to answer the call button doesn't answer the question of whether riders tried or not.

"I have the right to evaluate my safety etc. etc. etc." is wrong headed and ill-considered. Other than that, it's brilliant.

What are you evaluating? That you have been in a tunnel for 30 minutes? If you see flames, or smell smoke, or otherwise are actually immediately threatened, you need to move. If you simply lack information, on what basis are you evaluating your safety? There are hundreds, if not thousands, of other people impacted by your selfish act. Even if you don't fall on the third rail and kill yourself, once even one person is loose in the tunnels the emergency responders have an additional issue (you) to deal with.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Nor do three or four wrongs.

There's enough blame to go around.

In other words, while you can try to rationalize the actions of the passengers who got out of the trains, and wandered through the tunnel, they were wrong. It doesn't matter who else was wrong. The wrongs of others were no excuse for their wrong.

"But they didn't communicate weel enough to me..." "But I was hot..." "But it was taking too long..."

So what! None of that gives you a free pass to add to the problem.

What's next? What wrong of someone else will people use to justify their own wrongs?

Yeah, but the passengers' stupid wrong doesn't make Ronny's wrong right.

Yeah, that sucks that Huberman actually put some of the blame where it should have went. What a jerk.

At what point of sitting in a stationary but secure el car do you decide, "Well, we've been sitting for a while. Because of that, I feel I will be safer wandering through a dark, electrified tunnel, not knowing where I'm going, and where a large train may or may not be moving toward me with possibly no idea I'm in here. I'm out of here!"

Joe Blow has obviously never ridden the CTA if he thinks there is such a thing as a "stationary and secure el car." Hilarious. After about a half hour stuck on a train, passengers are essentially hostages.

SO, I guess I'd have to ask myself the question if I was there...didn't those people who in the World Trade Center and were told that everything was ok and to stay put and did what they were told and died cause they listened to someone who didn't know what the heck they were talking about. I for one have no problem with what the passengers did.

I think Ron owes every one of the people who use the CTA an apology. He's made his bed about how much better that communication was going to be in these type of situations and how he had learned his lessons from the previous fiasco. He hasn't learned anything.

Franks Rules:

1. Blame the customer. If it's not their fault, still blame the customer. You can't go wrong blaming the customer.

2. Don't learn from your mistakes. Make the same ones over and over again.

3. Lessen the impact. It was a "small glitch", a "minor inconvenience" a "short delay", "only adds 3 minutes to your commute"

4. When the heat gets too much, ask your buddy Daley for another job.

Say, it ain't so, Ron.

I look forward to my attendance at the next "coffee", if there is one.

UPDATE: The Sun-Times is reporting that the motorman that called the passengers 'stupid' has been suspended.

I'm curious...

What exactly were these "unbearable" conditions in the train car? It wasn't exactly hot out on the day this happened, so I can't imagine the tunnels getting very warm. How is sitting in the train car for an hour in the subway any different than sitting on the train car for a 20 minutes in the subway, like you would on a normal commute?

I just don't get it.

I was talking about this incident & some of the comments on this thread with someone yesterday. Her opinion was that if this had happened 30-50 years ago (before instant personal communication, etc), the passengers wouldn't have left. The public attitude was more trusting of authority then. "OK, we're stuck. Well, they'll fix it." And people would have mostly settled down. Not to mention of course that there would have been more CTA employees on the train to help pass along information, calm riders, etc. As in conductors...
Now, we're all for instant gratification, got to know what's going on (which isn't all bad, to be sure; a lot of things have been corrected because of that), and we're a lot less trusting of officials & authority. Blame it where you will--the Boomers/Hippies distrusted authority--or so I've always been told--so the attitude could have been passed down. I cetainly tend to be cynical about "official statements." Of course, there was a rise in corruption or perception of corruption about the same time, which just showed that perhaps authority wasn't to be trusted... Sorry, I digress. The point is, she could see how passengers got up & left on their own initiative, esp when dealing with an organization that has proven less than optimal in the past. We've seen snafus with the CTA in the recent past, and when we don't get any info, of course people will get up and do things on their own, because we know of derailments, and we know there could be fires or smoke, or other things that could be dangerous. We'll take our chances on the catwalk rather than risk more perilous situations.
My guess is that those with a properly talkative motor-person tended to stay in place & those with uncommunicative ones moved about.

I agree with those who pointed out we can at least talk to the driver, and I hope some tried. I don't if it would have occurred to me, tho--I've not seen those work with any efficiency in the past. But maybe they've improved.

Also, of course, the union says "that's why there should be more than one employee on the train..." not, we should have better trained people and our guy screwed up.

The same thing will happen. The guy will be suspended or fired, he'll appeal, he'll get his job and back pay and he'll get alot of money for doing nothing while he was off. Where have I heard that before...oh, when the guy was fired for the infamous "Belmont" incident.

I for one would like to see an example made out of the guy just so the rest of the employees would get the message. Sorry if it sounds cruel, but peoples lives are on the line here. These are not "Would you like Fries with that" type of job. Every one of these people should have these emergency procedures drilled into them so that they know them in their sleep.

At the very least, the guy could have walked through the train and made an announcement. He has a handheld radio that he can still keep in contact with the control center and it would have gone a long way to keeping order and making people feel more secure and generally not letting the situation get out of hand like it did.

KevinB

Neal:

lets do so real life physics.

You have a enclosed rail car with perhaps 75 people in it. No circulation. No doors opening at stops to let fresh air in. 75 people x 98.6 degrees F.

How long till the heat becomes "unbearable"?

There's a reason that it seems really cold when you go into a large event space. It doesn't stay that way long with lots of people.

Also, just hope everyone took a shower that morning too...cause when they start to sweat....then there's the people with health issues. I hope you have a big bladder. Maybe that grande starbucks wasn't such a good idea after all.

KevinB

I ride the Blue Line every day, and while my experience was not nearly as traumatic as those underground, it still took me 2 hours to get to work.

I boarded the Blue Line at Logan Square about 8:45, and our train reached Damen before it was emptied and switched tracks to go north, around 9:30. Our driver was very diligent in making announcements every 5-10 minutes during that time, explaining that a train ahead of us had mechanical problems. So, while being on a slow moving train for 45 minutes isn't fun, we weren't kept in the dark. The fact that this level of communication was not uniform for all trains is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed.

The shuttle bus coordination was a little more chaotic. Obviously, the Damen/North/Milwaukee intersection was dangerously overcrowded, compounded by the fact that traffic seemed heavier than usual, even before the shuttle busses arrived. It was 10:00 before I got on a shuttle bus, mostly because I waited for the crowds to dissipate a little bit, although my shuttle was still wall to wall with commuters.

This process would have gone a little smoother, I think, if CTA employees directed riders to gather in specific areas, and if riders realized when busses were full and waited for the next shuttle. As it was, the boarding process was ad hoc and shuttles did not leave in an orderly fashion because some commuters just don't understand when a bus is full, and cause delay by trying to squeeze on.

It was another 30 minutes or so until I finally got to the Daley Center. Overall the bus ride was smooth, but for some reason (I could not see), the bus driver pulled over and stopped behind another bus before the Milwaukee/Halstead/Grand intersection and stopped for 5/10 minutes for no reason. The biggest problem, though, was that the bus driver did not announce the route we were taking, or where we would stop, and in fact had to pull aside another shuttle bus and ask where they were going.

So, the bus response was fast, but it didn't seem like there was a prepared plan for this sort of contingency which all employees were aware of.

Eric

75x98.6=7395 degrees inside that car?

Wow, real life physics says that those train cars probably should've been a puddle of molten steel.

Neal, the tube tunnels in London are notoriously hot - not what you would expect, but so are mines and deep some deep caves.

I loved the comment at the sun-times article about how it would never happen in Britain (people leaving the trains) - of course it couldn't - there is no room to get by the tube cars in the tunnel and no catwalk or lights either. Caveat; this only applies in the deep level tubes .

Neal:

Nice sarcasm there bud. It gets hot with alot of people in a closed space. Not 8000 degrees, but enough that people are uncomfortable, not to mention those that are afraid of tight places, etc.

KevinB

Gotta love this....from the trib. Daley ok with CTA response.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/clout_st/2008/04/daley-ok-with-c.html

I'm sure he is. Quite satisfied. Olympic quality response. I wonder if he actually believes what he says. Its sad.

Kevin

in the Neal-KevinB dispute, I'm on Kevin's side!!

Plainly Neal doesn't ride the L much or at least not when it's as jammed as they can get. Trust me, the number of people can make a huge impact on the interior temperature. I've stepped on L cars in the summer (yes, fine, different season, irrelevant at the moment) that are already SRO, with the air on, and the inside temperature is roughly the same as the outside with everyone on it. So I can see with no or little moving air and full cars, how it might get "uncomfortable." At least I carry a little fan around to cool the sweat from my brow. Doesn't help a whole lot, but better than nothing.

I had serious post envy on Tuesday when I read the comments on the Tribune site. One clever cynic suggested that Daley should apply for "CTA Evacuations" as a 2016 Olympic demonstration sport.

You know guys, I always take the opposite side of any issue, so I'm going to have to take offense at anybody agreeing with me.

I don't know why, but somehow it just doesn't seem natural. Next thing you know, Tattler Kevin will actually be agreeing with me. I don't know if I could take that, it might drive me off the deep end.

KevinB

Trust me, KevinB, it hurts us more than it hurts you. :) As for Neal's snarky comment, I like the thought of "train cars probably should've been a puddle of molten steel." Sounds like something Salvador Dali would paint. It could be named "The Persistence of CTA Incompetence" and hang in the Art Institute next to "The Persistence of Memory" with the melty clocks.

I could see the melty trains with a train full of Edvard Munchs "The Scream" in the windows of the train in my minds eye....but then thats just me and my warped sense of humor.

Kevin

KevinB: I agree with you that ageeing with you would drive me off the deep end.

LOL!

Ok, now I'm confused and I'm in a car, on the edge of the deep end and I don't know if I should drive over or not. :)

KevinB

You should get out of the car and walk off into the deep end, since it'll start getting pretty hot if you sit in the car for too long..

I'll just sit in the car and wait for the announcement that we are going to start moving "real soon now" and there is a car "right behind us"....

KevinB

I don't think there is any good reason to force passengers on operational trains to wait in the train until the dead train was removed from the track. ESPECIALLY on CTA where there is a redundancy provided by bus service. You could actually get off and continue your journey. I think this is a symptom of the belief that operations folks move equipment, not people. I've been in the same situation with metra, with an incident on the tracks ahead and the train is between two stations -- you can just wait until they are ready to move the train, even if it takes 2 hours. I believe operations folks worry about moving the equipment and not about the "freight" it contains.