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What I know about Red Line slow zones

My pal KevinB asked about the status of Red Line slow zones after the CTA completes the subway slow zone work in October. I haven't yet asked the CTA about that, but I did review the most current slow zone maps. Here's what I can tell you.

According to the map below, almost 13,000 feet of slow zones between North/Clybourn and Clark and Division should be fixed in October.

Subway_slow_zones

So, this map indicates October should mark the end of slow zone work in the Red Line subway.

And what about other slow zones north of the subway? The map below shows we're all clear from Armitage through Belmont. The next slow zones are centered around the curve at Sheridan.

Red_line_slow_zones

Take a look at the big map to see some slow zones exist from Thorndale to Howard.

Comments

That CTA slow zone map is an outright fraud!
It shows the Loyola to Granville southbound SZ as 25mph max due to track conditions, yet the trains crawl through that section at 10-15mph all the time & often come to a complete stop & then start again.
I either experience this as a passenger or even more just being at Devon, Broadway & Sheridan or Broadway & Rosemont watching them barely move.

I now await rusty to tell me, who am I to believe, the CTA or my lying eyes!

Fraud - a deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual.

I don't think it is fraud. Get a dictionary.

Also, just because a train slows down doesn't mean it is a slow zone. I'm sure there are dozens of reasons for a train to slow down through a particular area. Also, the area you speak of near Sheridan & Broadway is a slow zone according to the map. Also, just because a track is zoned to be max 25mph, that doesn't mean they always go that speed. Unless you are a conductor on a CTA train, there might be a few things you don't know about this sort of thing.

Before the floodgates open - here's some clarity on what this map is.

It shows locations on the system where the track conditions are such that ALL trains must proceed through the area at a reduced speed at all times (at least until it is fixed).

It doesn't show areas where track inspectors will be walking on an individual day - resulting in the train having to slow down to 6 mph to pass them.

It doesn't show areas where the track inspectors may find an abnormality and send a crew out for two days to fix it.

It doesn't show areas which can withstand normal speeds, but where workers will be working at times - therefore requiring slower speeds.

It doesn't show areas where the signals and presence of other trains might require the train to slow down, creep along, and sometimes stop.

It doesn't show areas where CTA crews get deployed to work in a track area where the trains ONLY have to slow down when the workers are there. (This is probably the unexpected slowdown that most people encounter.) If trains can go through the areas at higher speeds when workers aren't there - then it doesn't get marked on the slow zone map.

What about the map indicates any kind of timeline for repairs?

And it doesn't show places where, after a delay due to a stopped brown line train, numerous brown and purple line trains are allowed to go ahead of our red line train as we sit waiting and waiting...while our operator gives us a play by play and assures us that this is out of his control. (This happened yesterday.)

chris: What the hell are you writing?
First you state it might not be a slow zone & then you admit it is!
Make up your mind, if you have one!

No one is working there, between Loyola & Granville, so there aren't any additional work zone restrictions.

A lie is a fraud & the map is a lie, therefore fraudulent.
Get a thesaurus not a dictionary!

And cc writer brings up a long standing complaint of mine. Red Line trains always have to wait for Brown Line trains in either direction. We sit & wait for one to arrive at Belmont & then sit & wait again for the same train to arrive at Fullerton. For what, the seven people that got on at Diversey & want to take the subway instead of the L to the Loop?
We sit & wait for a northbound to clear the interlocking & due to the signal system, northbound Red trains can't go until the Brown has cleared the crossover by about 200 feet.
Whatever happened to the long promised flyover?

As far back as when George Krambles was running the CTA, the Ravenswood Line was the teacher's pet of CTA management. I remember him calling it his "little railroad" in a newspaper article. He would take over from the motorman at The Mart & run the train out to Kimball & back.

Gosh, you are right. Priorities should be based on what train you're riding, not on operational need.

And if it isn't on the map as a slow zone, trains should just speed through the area regardless of anything else that's happening. The only place the train should ever slow down is something marked on the map as a slow zone. Especially if you're on the train.

Good grief.

I suppose it's not paranoia if the whole world really is out to get you.

I don't think it's really true that the Brown Line always has priority over the Red. I would love it if it did, don't get me wrong -- but I find myself hanging around just past Southport a big proportion of the time, even in the middle of the day.

No Rusty, it has nothing to do with operational priorities, it has to do with clout, the clout of somebody or bodies who ride the Brown & work at the CTA. It's not happening much with the three tracking, but before, if a Brown was within a quarter-mile of either Belmont or Fullerton, the Red had to wait.
Every
Single
Time!

And you didn't read my comments!
There is a slow zone SB from Loyola to Granville on track 2.
It is definitely on the map.
The map shows it as a 25mph max SZ.
No work is being done there.
But all the trains go through the slow zone at 10-15 mph max.
Therefore it's not a 25 mph max, it's a 15 mph max.

Therefore, the map is a lie, probably because they don't want to admit that the slow zones are actually slower than they claim.

And now Rusty has told me not to believe my lying eyes!
Just as I predicted!

Well 10-15 mph qualifies as under 25 mph maximum. The speed limit is a limit. It's not what speed the TO is required to go.

And what you think may feel like 10-15 mph may just be over 20 mph. After all, yesterday you told us that "Last week I rode the #4 [twice] between the Loop & 58th.
I saw over a dozen cash fares," and that only one other person besides you used a card. So you only saw a few more than a dozen people on two trips on the #4 between the Loop and 58th during midday? If that was an accurate account, they should eliminate midday service on the #4 because it must be the least used route in the system.

So I really don't trust your preception of reality. It's too full of hyperbole and exagerations. Your eyes may be fine, but something else is causing you to precieve what they're seeing in ways that simply have no connection to the reality that actually is happening. Your bias and prejudice apparently are rejecting things you must be seeing that don't fit your preconcieved notions.

Talk about a confusing map! I need a training course in order to interpret that thing.

Anyway, I agree with the Brown line having priority over the Red line statmement. You would think that when a red and brown both stop at Fullerton that the red would end up ahead because of the 2 additional stops. Nope - the red still has to wait for the brown to catch up at belmont.

But I love that little chant they do at Belmont: Brown Line Train on the Outside Track! Red Line Train on the Inside Track! (or do I have it backwards) All together now, chant it with me, let me hear you!

One benefit of the three tracking phases has been NO waiting for the damn Brown line to show up at Belmont or Fullerton. Its pull in, doors open, doors close and we are on our way. I also get VERY frustrated sitting at Belmont waiting for the Brown line to show up when we just connected with it at Fullerton. Then we end up waiting another 2 minutes while the Brown line gets routed through Clark Junction first. Then in the meantime another Brown line has arrived at Belmont and now we allow a SECOND Brown line train to connect with one Red line. Its a joke on Cubs night game evenings, when the Red line is already jammed beyond capacity and there is zero room for more riders connecting from the second Brown line that came into Belmont while we wait and wait to proceed. Ron, if you read this...time for a review of operating and connecting procedures in the evening rush hour at Belmont.

See Rusty, I now have two others agreeing that Brown Has priority over Red Line trains at Belmont & Fullerton.
I have ridden it hundreds, probably thousands of times in the last twenty years & that's how it is.

As to the Loyola-Granville slow zone, I'm saying the map the CTA has released is showing it as a 25 mph limit, but the motormen have been told not to go above 10 or 15 mph through there.

And don't give me this bullshit about my having preconceptions about the speed. I'm standing on the corner of Devon & Sheridan waiting for the bus in front of the Arcade Building & I'm watching trains crawl by, most of them having to stop at least once!

As for the #4 bus, anyone that rides it with any regularity knows it's one of the most bunched up messes of a route around. Once, about two years ago it was so bad at 9AM southbound at Jackson/Michigan, the supervisor there had a #3 turned into a 4 because no & I repeat no SB 4 had come through in 30 minutes & there were still no northbound ones to short turn. The bus was filled to capacity, with standees by Roosevelt.

And if you would learn to read & interpret correctly, you would have seen that I said only one other person besides me used a Chicago Card.
The smart card!
I didn't count those that used the magnetic striped card & I'm not counting them as cash payers.

It's obvious you are currently or have worked for the CTA & you refuse to see its shortcomings.

"As to the Loyola-Granville slow zone, I'm saying the map the CTA has released is showing it as a 25 mph limit, but the motormen have been told not to go above 10 or 15 mph through there."
UCC--is an extra 10 or 15 mph really that big of a deal? I would rather have the operator use some caution on dangerous tracks than risk an accident. Until you tell us that you have stood out there with a radar gun measuring the speed of the train I have no reason to believe in your judgment of the trains speed. I don't think you realize how easy it is for people to have misconceptions about an objects speed.

"First you state it might not be a slow zone & then you admit it is! Make up your mind, if you have one!"

No I didn't. Learn how to comprehend sentences. I like how you don't mention how you were wrong about the Sheridan & Broadway area being a slow zone according to the map.

Also, use your thesaurus. Lie != Fraud. You must believe so because in your next post you used the word lie instead of fraud.

Also, as mentioned above, a 25mph max means you can go anywhere from 1-25mph and be within the range appropriate. If you have been in a car, you might also notice that some cars go under the speed limit. Amazing!!!

Is anyone else confused? Where do the L tracks go by Sheridan and Broadway?? Near where the tracks cross Montrose? Or do we mean near Irving Park and Sheridan near the curves and the Sheridan Red line station?

I also agree trains near Loyola on red do NOT go above 15mph, if that. They creep and have to come to a stop often when there are no trains or workers anywhere nearby. Also, the operators do not choose or are simply instructed to go a certain speed limit, the signal system on a particular section of track governs the maximum allowable speed. Ever ride in the front car and hear that BEEP? That is the signal system warning the operator they have exceeded the maximum allowable speed in that area and to slow down or the train will automatically go into emergency stop mode.

Now, certain areas such as curves or inclines have permanent reductions in speed which as also governed by the cab signal system. Also some areas without many curves have a permanent 35mph speed limit. This is the case on Red between tunnel entrance and Belmont. So no, the maximum rail system speed of 55mph is not allowed in this area and since its 35mph due to the various jogs and kinks in the tracks around buildings and NOT due to bad tracks, structure, etc needing repair there is no slow zone indicated on the slow zone map. In other words it will FOREVER be 35mph in this area unless some buildings were torn down, millions spent and the tracks straightened out. Sheridan curves (near Irving Park and Sheridan) will be 25mph at best once the track problems are fixed there.

>>

The L tracks go by Sheridan and Broadway by the Loyola stop.

[ [ Is anyone else confused? Where do the L tracks go by Sheridan and Broadway?? ] ]

The L tracks go by Sheridan and Broadway by the Loyola stop.
sorry for double post.

sophistry (säf′is trē)

unsound or misleading but clever, plausible, and subtle argument or reasoning; sophism

Sheridan and Broadway intersect with Montrose as well. You can see the L tracks from the intersection. This is also near a slow zone according to the map.

That is true. There are two intersections of Sheridan and Broadway, just as there are two intersections of: _______ and _______ (a little Chicago street quiz for you)

I don't have a pony in this race, but being an editor, I have to correct chris: UCc is using "fraud" perfectly acceptably. You may disagree that it qualifies. But all three of the dictionaries I have within immediate reach offer a form of the "act of deceiving or misrepresenting" definition, and that is what UCc is claiming.

Mmm, actually, when I moved here in late '97, I got the strong and generally reinforced perception that trains left Belmont in the order in which they arrived. That has varied some in recent years, even before the three-tracking projects started. But, while I don't ride the Red and Brown lines that often nowadays, I've gotten the perception that at least for northbound trains, that's generally true again.

As for slow zones, a one-mile trip at the theoretical top rail speed of 75 mph takes about seven seconds less than a one-mile trip at 55 mph. Check that out. Most lines don't come close to having uninterrupted, straight one-mile stretches, but even if they did, if the train *started* at 75 mph without acceleration or inertia and instantly *braked* to 0 without deceleration or inertia, you'd save no more than seven seconds. That northern stretch of the Red Line where stations are two or three blocks apart? The time saving is even less significant.

I just wanted to brag (because I was SO happy) that I made it uptown from Grand to Loyola tonight in 25 minutes! That's unheard of lately, at least in my experience!!

In every post, I used the corner of Devon, Sheridan & Broadway or just Devon & Sheridan, I never wrote Sheridan & Broadway, not once!
In one post I said I was waiting for the bus in front of the Arcade Building at Devon & Sheridan.

All of you that hate me & what I write had better learn how to read before posting your hatred!

And there are three intersections of Sheridan & Broadway.
At 3900 N, where W. Sheridan replaces Dakin St, at Montrose & at Devon!

And there are 2 intersections of Elston & Milwaukee.
And Wacker Drive has two intersections at many streets it crosses due to two levels. Circle in Norwood Park begins & ends at itself.

UCc is discredited -- 3900N is Byron, not Dakin.

Sheridan does NOT "replace" Dakin Street, it is BYRON STREET are are trying to talk about!! Geesh. If you are going to be smartypants with us, at least make sure to get it right! And wouldn't "runs into" be more accurate to describe the Four-way stop at West Sheridan, Sheffield, BYRON and North Sheridan?

My experience recently (i.e., since both NB tracks reopened in March) has been that NB Red Line trains leave Belmont regularly before the Brown Line trains. In fact, I've found this to be true almost every single time. FWIW.

UCc is right, though, that the trains regularly run slower than 25 mph through the Sheridan-Granville stretch. I've sat in the front a couple of times and watched the speedometer through the window, so I'm not just guessing here.

This is awfully petty "fraud", however. I just don't see a huge public outrage over the fact that a slow zone requires *slightly slower* speeds than the already slow speed the CTA has labeled on the map.

Once again, UCc, I beg you to get some sort of perspective on these things. Or at least try to reign in your obvious, Chris Matthews-esque lack of impulse control when you are composing your comments.

No, it's not petty fraud.
If there's someone out there with a lot of time, ride the entire system & note the approximate speed through the slow zones that have no workers present.
My guess is that most of the time, the trains are going far slower than the max slow zone speed, probably at the max speed of the next slower slow zone.

Note that the map legend shows that there is 18,160 feet of 15 mph SZ, 34,034 feet of 25 mph SZ & 52,992 of 35 mph SZ.

Now what if say, 50% of that 34,000 feet of 25 mph is really 15 mph max, now you have 25,000 feet of really slow slow zones & the CTA looks worse & what if the 15mph ones are really 10 mph or slower ones.

The map is a total lie & I'll bet Huberman had it created to keep Daley happy, forgetting that we also see it & ride through the SZs & see just how slow the trains are really traveling at.

And it's not "slightly slower" in the Loyola/Granville zone, it's really slower. What with the cab chime telling the motorman that the ATC is going to stop the train if he doesn't, makes it an actual speed of about 5 mph through that zone.

And that is major fraud. The CTA is already been given & is still getting major heat for all the slow zones that Frank Kreusi's neglect caused & if publishing a fraudulent map makes it look like that the speeds aren't as slow as they actually are, they're going to try to make it seem like it's not as bad as it really is.

Sorry for the Dakin/Byron mistake, I had a brain freeze.

And no, I won't ever rein in anything!
I admit to making that mistake, no one else has admitted to making the Sheridan/Broadway one.

As for the Brown Line priority, I experience it far more southbound, prior to three tracking of course.
A red train stops at Belmont, the Brown hasn't even passed the old Clark Junction tower site, yet we, on the Red have to wait for the Brown & incredibly, the Brown always manages to leave Belmont first & also accelerates faster. The Red then proceeds to Fullerton, where again it waits for the same goddam Brown train as before, even though the Brown has made two stops & the Red, NONE!

This has happened hundreds of times to me over the years & if the operating policy isn't changed, it will continue to vex not just me, but thousands of others.
The Red trains are running on 7-10 minute headway, and those, on the Brown Line will have to wait for the next Red in a few minutes.

The northbound Brown Line priority is always letting it go & block the other three tracks as it goes through Clark Junction, & often making three trains wait, when letting the NB Red go & the SB Purple & Red proceed south & then the Brown would go last, would only delay one train instead of three.
CTA rail managers have their priorities all wrong, but don't seem to care.

If trains operated for the convenience of those who have "the clout" and work at the CTA, wouldn't the Red Line run express from Wilson to Lake every morning?

Just because our "Governor," the Attorney General and a Congressman live along the Brown doesn't mean it's everyone's favorite "little railroad."

Like I wrote earlier, nobody reads what I write, correctly, Martha being yet another one!

I wrote that George Krambles, who ran the CTA a few decades ago called it his "little railroad", at no time did I mention any current or previous elected official. It's CTA managers that do this. They do it because it's the teacher's pet of the L lines. Even I, the great cynic admit that the area around the Francisco station is like a small town, not the city. The tracks at grade are the cause, if they were elevated, it would be like any other filthy spot under the dark L structure.

None of the three that this fool Martha mentions even rides the L.
Blago being the worst as he lives one block from the Francisco station & drives to the state building which has a direct entrance to the Clark & Lake station.
Our corrupt & halfwit governor even drove home in a blizzard one December day almost 3 years ago & then had the unmitigated gall to complain that the drive took 3 hours!

What exactly do you expect the governor to do, UCC? Would you suggest that he ride the train every day with his secret service people and have them spend the whole time spying on everybody in and boarding the train car to make sure nobody is planning on harming him. Instead of the governor, like most politicians, spending his time in transit making phone calls and doing other business he would be talking to random people who are coming up to him. In the case of this particular governor, this would almost entirely be people who wish to insult him or complain about something (usually with good reason). I truly hate to defend Blagojevich since he is, without a doubt, the worst elected official I have ever witnessed. But come on, UCC. There is a good reason why governors, mayors, and presidents have limos that transport them from place to place. It is just not logistacally feasable for them to take public transportation or drive themselves around. That is just an abuntently obvious fact. Do you even think before you post? Do you take what you say seriously? Just about every day for the past week or so you have yelled and screamed with extreamly nonsensical rants. I don't know why I'm wasting my time with this. I'm certainly not going to get into the strange paronoid conspiratorial suggestion that brown line trains get priority because of "clout". Who would even be the people receiving this clout?

By the way, the governor, from what I understand, doesn't even spend very much time at the State of Illinois building. It has been established that he is mostly at home (and probably not doing very much work).

So I sat up front this morning on the Red Line to see for myself how fast it was going from Loyola to Granville, and wouldn't you know it, it ran at 25mph the entire way, with no extra stops or even cab beeps.

This actually surprised me. Now I'm not quite sure if I've misremembered previous trips, or if the train simply went faster than usual this morning. But at any rate, this should put an end to the ridiculous "fraud" talk.

For reference purposes, we pulled into Granville at 7:03.

Does the Secret Service, a branch of the United States Department of the Treasury, protect governors now?

While he made a terrible presidential candidate, Massachusetts Governor Mike Dukakis was a great governor (and he still would have made a better president than Bush I), and he rode Boston's Green Line from his home (in the near suburbs, but about as far from the State House as Blago is from Clark and Lake) to his office every day. Anyone on the train was welcome to wander over and chat him up.

After that, I enthusiastically agree with KevinB. What a wasteful dogpile this was.

Yes, UC, it was Elston & Milwaukee I was thinking of. But excuuuse me, I was not among those who misrepresented what you said or criticized you. I just thought a little trivia challenge might be fun. But now everyone is beating each other up over street names for pete's sake! Why don't you all pick some other pretext to be obnoxious to each other?

By the way, people, it is "rein in" as in pulling the reins to control a horse. Not "reign in"--when a king or queen reigns it's an ongoing office, not a specific action.

We had a non-stop express red line train speed through Granville with its whistle going at maybe 8 or 8:10 am. And the next train seemed to have numerous between-station stops or went slowly much of the rest of the way. Including c-r-e-e-p-i-n-g from Lake to Monroe.

====
I wrote that George Krambles, who ran the CTA a few decades ago called it his "little railroad", at no time did I mention any current or previous elected official
====

George lived near the Lake St. El (now the Green Line), so I seriously doubt that the context of his "little railroad" remark was in the context of the Brown Line (then the Ravenswood El) being a political favorite.

George was a transit professional, and not a political hack. We need another CTA President like him to replace the current guy who knows more about creating Powerpoint presentations than he does about running a transit system.

I still don't believe that the operations people are favoring the Brown Line at Clark Junction for political reasons, but I'll concede that if they are, it's far more likely in the political culture created by Ron H. than in the days of George K.'s "little railroad".

[By the way, people, it is "rein in" as in pulling the reins to control a horse. Not "reign in"--when a king or queen reigns it's an ongoing office, not a specific action.]

Yeah, thanks, I realized my mistake when UCc used the term properly above.

I guess it depends on which line you regularly ride. As a Brown Line rider, I often have to wait for a Red Line train (either north or southbound) to pass through before being allowed to cross the tracks past Belmont. In fact, it seems the Red Line usually gets priority. However, since the complaints in this post have been from Red Line riders, of course it's the Brown Line that always gets to go first. Though something tells me this thread won't be able to actually solve the mystery..

Before the Brown Line rehab, northbound Reds always waited longer than Browns at Belmont. I don't know why this was, other than the fact that Browns run more often. Because of the construction, it seems that this has changed and the decision makers have decided that Reds no longer need to sit at Belmont for 1 or 2 minutes while Browns go through. Maybe this situation changed because of the switching and signal upgrades. Or maybe they just want all trains to keep moving during the evening rush. Whatever the reason, I've noticed the improvement and I hope it stays that way. I'm pretty confident it's not a conspiracy or some show of favoritism. And regarding the junction, I'd say Brown gets priority as often as Red. It usually just depends on which train was first ... but sometimes, yes, a later Brown will get priority over a Red, probably to avoid a logjam of Browns and Purples at Belmont.

wowwwww!!!! i feel sorry for you guys in Chicago who have to ride the CTA. When I was in chicago, fortunately the Lake Shore Drive Express busses took me to work, I avoided the Red Line like the plage. The one time I did take the Red line home it was smelly. Right now, I dont' have to deal with ANY of this. Metra is just right with me! Every day, i get a nice big seat and another person fits along side next to me quite comfy or in the evening home I usually get the whole seat to myself. i get to bring a nice snack with me on the train - but i make sure it is not very spicey to make the other riders have to inhale my Popeyes' chicken snack. the motion of the train hums along and the air conditioning is always on, wow did that feel great coming in from the very hot humid July and August in Chicago weather. And wow, the windows are closed and it causes the general noise level on the train to be nice and muted. theres no hobo corner on the Metra and no one smells bad .. except those women who think that Musk perfume smells nice. yes we do have annoying cell phoners who yap a bit too loud, but for the most part, no one is screaming, nor gambling, nor begging for money.... Ahhhh,,, i feel your pain while i take a nice snooze all the way from my home to the Metra station in Chicago.

"Ahhhh,,, i feel your pain while i take a nice snooze all the way from my home to the Metra station in Chicago."

Alas, but for all your Metra enjoyment, you are a suburbanite...

so it still sucks to be you.

At least I have 24/7 train service that can get me home after staying out late with my buddies.

Mind the crack in the sidewalk--you're likely to miss it with your nose in the air.

UC is just a tool. Now he thinks there a conspiracy against him to keep his train at a stop while more important people with clout go first. You need some help. You're getting pathetic.

As a Ravenswood resident, I can actually take the Metra to and from work, reach the red line with a quick journey on the 24-hour Lawrence bus, or simply walk to the Brown Line. As soon as the Damen stop reopens, I'm even more golden!

Once again, good ole Rusty refuses to believe what was written!
It was a Chicago newspaper article [I think the Trib] on Krambles in which Krambles took a reporter on a trip on the Ravenswood L in which Krambles took over as motorman!
He called the Ravenswood "his little railroad"!
I've never forgotten that!
And who cares where George lived, he took the motorman's position during his working hours, not on the way to work! he said he did it at least once a month.

I have never said there is a conspiracy against me to make me late, ever!
If anyone is a tool, it's you, painhertz! You're the one seeing conspiracies, not me!
What I've said is that Brown Line trains always get priority!
My theory is that there has been a management decision that started decades ago & continues to this day to give management's favorite little railroad priority!
Why?
Because we always did it that way!
At one time there might have been a reasonable explanation for it, but not anymore.

Here's a question for you painhertz: Do you know why the 96 bus runs on Lunt instead of Pratt, which is where it should logically be?
Please, no one else answer.
I do know why & the bus should have been moved in 1979 to Pratt, but, it's always been on Lunt, so apparently to the CTA, it always has to be on Lunt!

I mentioned one day that Blago complained of miserable traffic & a 3 hour commute home, I said he could have taken the L home instead & you & your equally foolish compatriot MK conflate it to my demanding that he take it daily!

Once again, learn to read!

Yes, Dukakis always rode the Green Line from his home in Brookline to the Mass. Capitol on Beacon Hill.
Mike Bloomberg, the mayor of NYC takes the subway there all the time & has done so for years.
AND HE'S A BILLIONAIRE!

"What I've said is that Brown Line trains always get priority!"

We had one other brown line rider state that they have had to wait for the red line on occasion. It must not be ALWAYS.

UC,

Sometimes you have valid points, but your gross exaggerations make people miss them because you blow everything way out of proportion.

Also, it's kind of funny to see how the frame of your argument changes over the course of this thread as people pick these exaggerations apart. You drop one point and then point out how someone else is wrong about something...

Anyway, this thread is so far off topic now, it's not funny.

[The CTA is already been given & is still getting major heat for all the slow zones that Frank Kreusi's neglect caused & if publishing a fraudulent map makes it look like that the speeds aren't as slow as they actually are, they're going to try to make it seem like it's not as bad as it really is.]

That's not a conspiracy theory?

No chris, actually there were several Red Line riders that noticed that the Brown trains got priority, cc writer, swizzle & ed did so yesterday.

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