CTA Tattler

I'm sure there will be people who don't like this, and I can see some valid reasons why. This greatly increased ridership will mean that it's harder to find a seat, for example. On the other hand, it's exciting to see that so many people are finding public transportation useful. This is what cleaner, healthier transportation looks like. Every rider on the CTA means fewer dollars sent to the Middle East.

It's better to stand than have to wait for another train. I think most people will see the benefit of that.

Good move by the CTA - I used to use the Sedgwick stop every morning, and it was not fun to wait as 2 or 3 packed trains showed up every morning.

Should hopefully make it a little easier getting on at Chicago during rush. Would be nice if they had a few more pairs running though.

As long as we continue to have employers who think everyone has to report to work at the same time, we're going to have these problems. We're going to have these problems on the trains. We're going to have these problems on the buses. We're going to have these problems on the freeways. We're going to have these problems in the parking garages. We're going to have these problems on the elevators.

Having to commute at the height of peak is just another condition of employment people should be considering. It's just like wages and other benefits. If you think the best job for you is one that requires you to start at a time that your commute will be hell, then your commute will be hell.

Stand on the train. Stand on the platform. Whatever. Just remember that if you shifted your commute by sometimes as little as a half hour, the conditions would be entirely different.

But now, some of those people who do travel on the fringes of peak will have fewer seats to choose from. What a nice reward for not traveling at the height of peak.

On a topic that hasn't come from a CTA press release, I'm wondering what luck anyone has had with bus tracker.

My gf and I used it twice over the weekend to avoid the rain.

The time she used it on her own, she interpreted 2 minutes as probably 3 minutes and went racing out the door and missed it anyway. But that's not the tracker's fault, and will help her understand what margin she needs when she uses it.

The other time, we were able to catch the bus we wanted, walking up to a corner full of sopping people who had been waiting for a while for the two bunched buses that I had been watching on the tracker.

But that night, I came home later, after taking one of two bunched buses back (untracked, since we don't have a PDA), and found the laptop still had the tracker on. Out of curiosity, I hit refresh to see where the two buses had reached, and only one was visible. I watched for a minute or two to see if the other bus's icon would appear from behind the shadow of the first, but it didn't.

I know from reading here and elsewhere that there are buses that don't show up, but that shouldn't happen often. Yet I've run into it more than once in my limited number of tracker uses. It didn't particularly hurt us, but ultimately, it makes me less apt to rely on the system if there are large numbers of buses that don't show up. I might sit home waiting while a tracker 'ghost bus' zooms past my stop.

What's going on to improve the accuracy of this system?

This is off-topic, but I definitely enjoyed it (and agree with the author's point of view!)

http://subwayblogger.com/2008/09/15/backpack-wearing-douchebags/#more-1316

What's the guys deal with backpacks? I admit they are annoying when people don't take them off, but there are plenty of legitimate purposes for using them without making you a douchebag. Like going to school...

My luck with the tracker has been the same as yours. Works most of the time, but occasionally does not. It's not dependable enough yet, but I'm not sure if time will fix this or if there will always be "ghost buses".

Well, I don't think that backpacks themselves are douchey, but more his point of people not taking them off on a crowded subway.

Thanks for your concern about the well-being of those of us who commute on the fringe of rush hour, Rusty, but I would rather be able to catch that first train I see and stand on the train than wait through two or three that are packed. I would also rather stand in a fairly packed train than stand with my nose crushed into a strangers back. These things are still happening after 6PM on the Brown Line.

"This greatly increased ridership will mean that it's harder to find a seat, for example."

Well, the refurbished cars are a response to increased ridership, not the cause. But you're right, some people will complain. that's just the way of the world.

WRT the question about the bustracker - I've used it two or three times, both on my friend's phone (mine isn't web-enabled, thank god) and online at home, and it's worked fine for me.

I don't get that guy's deal with backpacks, either. Would I rather have you up close and personal in front of me, or breathing down my back? Sure, I could put my backpack at my feet, but then I have to both hold on to it and keep myself upright at the same time -- all while nobody else seems to care that they're kicking/stepping on my bag with their feet. Even if I don't have a backpack on, no one on the train should be as close to me as my backpack would be, so what's it matter if I wear it or not?

Sorry Joe Blow, but taking off a backpack on a crowded bus or train is common courtesy. The size of some of these backpacks prevents one more person from entering or makes them difficult to get around, not to mention getting whacked with it when they turn.

I'm pretty conscientious about my backpack, but most people aren't very courteous about the fact that you're trying to hold on to your backpack (or other items) at your feet, so it just becomes another thing you have to worry about protecting while you're riding the train. I don't wear a huge backpack, and it's hard to believe you could actually fit an extra person on the train if I took my backpack off. I mean, maybe if the person was cuddling next to me like my backpack does, but I do have standards (most of the time)..

I had the fortune (misfortune?) of being on on the innagural run of the max capacity cars last Friday. There was a CTA employee that was doing a survey, but I don't think the CTA was asking the right question. The question was "do you like this way (missing some seats) better than the old way (all seats included)?" and the responses were "Like it a lot better," "like it a little better," "like the old way a little better" and "like the old way a lot better." Of course, everyone was answering that they liked the old way better! I can't imagine too many people saying "no, I prefer to stand."

I told the truth and said I preferred the old way better, because I recently had surgery and it's a little difficult for me to stand for 30+ minutes. However, I made sure to clarify that I would MUCH rather stand than have to wait for 2-3 trains go by during the evening rush. Unfortunately, I don't think he took that part of the answer down. I'm sure I'm just another "like the old way a little better" statistic.

I'm just concerned that they're not asking the right questions, and therefore their data will be skewed. I can already see the "92% of respondents said they liked the old way better" statistic being used in the future.

Dave, if you'd rather board one of the new cars and not wait for another train, why did you say you liked the old way better? Your answer is going to sway them in the wrong direction from what you actually prefer overall..

Strange question, but what if you put your backpack on your front? Do the same rules apply?

I agree, Dave. In order to get the data you want, you have to construct the questions correctly. The survey first should have addressed if passengers prefer to be able to board sooner rather than having to wait for multiple over-capacity trains to pass. This question would elicit yes or no and then the survey could follow with questions soliciting a response on a Likert scale (1 through 5). I hope they asked whether passengers felt safe standing since the media is suggesting almost certain injury will occur for standing passengers. I used to stand by choice coming home on the Brown back in the halcyon days of the early nineties when ridership was not anywhere near today's numbers. I figured it was good core and balance work and cured what ailed me after a long day of sitting and staring at a computer.

I like to wear a large backpack because it keeps people from getting too close. I don't like people standing so close.

Good move by the CTA - I used to use the Sedgwick stop every morning, and it was not fun to wait as 2 or 3 packed trains showed up every morning.

Hell, I got at Fullerton and I'm lucky if it's only two or three trains.

I can't imagine too many people saying "no, I prefer to stand."

That's funny. Apparently I'm in the vast minority, but I almost always stand, even if there are plenty of seats available. If I'm leaving work, I've been sitting all day. Of course, I only have a few stops, so it's not a big deal, but I was looking for one of these cars today, assuming there would be more, but no such luck.

Are they putting both at the back, or one back one front?

Oops, should have italics in a couple quoted sections in that comment.

Yet another example of the CTA addressing a problem by making things harder on riders.

Here's a way to reduce crowding that no one seems to be talking about: More frequent trains. But more trains means increasing track speeds and modernizing signals. And that would require major infrastructure investment. You know, the kind of investment that's commonplace in Europe and Asia. No, we'd rather rip out seats and cram people in like cattle because it's quick, cheap and easy.

This is what decades of deferred attention has wrought: A creaky, old system that barely putters along. Where's the outrage, Chicago?

I dont think it's possible to make everyone happy all of the time.
Why dont we just quadruple the fare? Fewer will ride and everyone who can afford it gets a precious seat.
I don't see what the big deal is here. It's a two dollar ride, tops. What do you expect? At least you'll have a better chance to get where you need to be.

I use a backpack, but when I get on the red line I take it off and put it between my feet if I have to stand. I don't know why you would have to hold onto it. If people need to get by me at a stop then I lean down and pick up the backpack and move out of the way. I don't understand why anyone needs to wear a backpack on the train.

I wonder if they will implement the fewer seat cars on the red line? I take it NB from Grand to Addison and many people have to wait for a train or two to go by before being able to board during the PM rush hour. A little extra room could go a long way.

I don't take the brown line, but is the brown line really more packed than the red line at rush hour?

"I don't take the brown line, but is the brown line really more packed than the red line at rush hour?"

Oh yes, Tim. By far.

Is it just me or does this photo make RonH look like he's made of wax and appearing in a Madame Toussaud's display of North American transit executives?

Max, where are these trains supposed to come from?

in regards to backpack wearing people, if its in my way, its getting moved. You can huff, you can puff, but I'm pushing past you anyways.

In regards to the new cars, I rarely have to ride during peak times, so I cant say wether I like it in practice, but in theory I'm wholly for it. My mother is disabled and needs a seat and is still mostly in favor of the idea.

I just don't see where these cars are a negative for the system or the rider. I'm sorry you cant sit down, but the extra 25 riders the car is going to hold(according to the #s in the article) would not have been sitting anyway unless it was on the platform. Is this just a complaint from those who get on the train before it gets to sardine tin status? As long as I have a bar or strap to hold on to, I can ride the train and get home within an hour or so instead of the usual wait of 30-45 minutes for a train that has room to squeeze in to.

What are the rules on bikes during peak rush periods when it comes to trains? I'm constantly making people with bikes remove the front wheel from the empty seat across the aisle so I can sit.

Backpacker, if you "don't like people standing so close," you're a fool for taking public transportation.

Seitz, just thinking out loud here: Please try to be conscious of the fact that, when you stand on a train with plenty of seats, you're likely to get in the way of folks boarding and departing. If you already are, thank you.

DavidJ, bikes are not allowed to board trains during rush hours. See if you can chat up the rider, find out where they boarded, and call the CTA customer care line to complain. But even if you can't winnow that info out of them, do call, ideally with the run number if you can get it (it's often announced over the PA at major stations); CTA management clearly needs to reinforce the rules to both bike riders and station personnel.

**I don't take the brown line, but is the brown line really more packed than the red line at rush hour?**

I can only speak to my morning commute, Tim, but at the Fullerton stop, say between 8:00 and 8:30, I'm lucky to get on one out of every three or four Brown Line trains (full disclosure, I'm not the type to shove my way onto an already overcrowded train, but that's my cross to bear). Conversely, I rarely, if ever, see even one Red Line train that's too crowded to board. So at least on the morning commute, the Brown line is way more crowded, and with the single southbound track, it looks like there's as many Brown Line trains as Red Line trains. They pretty much alternate one after the other, with the occasional Purple thrown in there.

**Seitz, just thinking out loud here: Please try to be conscious of the fact that, when you stand on a train with plenty of seats, you're likely to get in the way of folks boarding and departing. If you already are, thank you.**

Well, I generally move out of the way. :) Trust me, nobody has ever missed getting on or off of a train just because I've chosen to stand.

And trust me, I never lean against the pole, a practice I find worse than people who wear a backpack.

I used to ride the Brown Line, thank goodness I don't anymore. But last year, the Brown Line definitely had the worst overcrowding. The only time the Red approaches that level is on Cubs game days. Brown is 5 days a week from 4:30-7. God help you if you need to get on going North at Chicago/Franklin during evening rush.

Blue Line was really bad too, until they fixed the Milwaukee subway.

@Cheryl

The trains would come from the train fairy. Where else?

Not sure what you're asking. I'm advocating Chicagoans demand far greater overall investment in the system. That would include a lot of new rolling stock as well.

Yes, there are some new trainsets scheduled to arrive in 2009 but, like a lot of CTA initiatives, it's long overdue and not nearly enough.

CTA rolling stock is currently the oldest of any major transit system in America. What exactly is our 10% sales tax buying us then?

Maxamillion, you obviously need to take a course in political science, Chicago style. I suggest you register for The Chicago Combine 101. That should answer your questions.

I rode in one of the Max cars tonight for the first time, between my office in the Loop and home, off the Armitage stop. Because these cars (1) still have the wind screens and (2) have odd arrangements for remaining seats and grab bars, it actually made getting off the train more difficult than with seats. Twice as many people had to step off the train to let myself and other passengers exiting at Armitage out.

Seems like a good idea in theory, but getting on the train is far easier than exiting the train.

>>>
What exactly is our 10% sales tax buying us then?
<<<

It goes to operating expenses, not capital investments.

I know this is an old post, but I have some questions about it. I ride the Brown line Monday through Friday, ahead of rush hour. In the mornings I get on at Western between 6:00 and 6:30 (in theory, sometimes it's more like 6:45 to 7:00). Lately (the last couple of weeks), if I'm running late and get on around 6:45, I end up on a train with the removed seats. It seams to me that if a train is leaving Western at 6:45, it won't be back to Kimball and ready to go out again until at least 8:30, which means it's not going out during the peak of rush hour. Coming home I usually catch an el from State/Lake around 3:45, and for the past couple of weeks the same thing has been happening on my return trip. It seems like that train wouldn't be back down town until about 6:00 (which at doesn't seem as odd in the evening, as more people leave work at different times than go in at different times).

In the afternoon I don't mind standing (not that I generally end up needing to) because I've been sitting all day. I have to admit, though, that getting on so early in the morning, it is nice to have a seat.

It just seems to me (as someone who used to take the train right at the peak of rush hour in both directions) that it would make more sense for all of the trains with removed seats to head out during the 7:30-9:00 period.

I was thinking about sending the CTA a letter expressing this (since it is in the trial phase), but if it's just my confusion on the intent of when the cars go out I don't want to waste their time.

A rather curious sight today: a 8 car Brown Line train has been running with a pair of Max Capacity cars in the front and another pair in the back. What's up with that?