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Tactics for reducing bus gaps

We CTA riders call it bus bunching, but the CTA's President Ron Huberman refers to the problem as bus gaps.

"We're trying to attack the big gaps in bus arrivals -- managing the intervals," said Ron at a coffee Sept. 20 with CTA Tattler and a few aficionados. Huberman said he prefers to call the bunching problem a gapping problem because riders hate it when there are big gaps in buses caused by earlier bunching.

The No. 1 solution is bus maintenance -- getting the bus fleet into good repair. And Huberman said he CTA has made substantial progress -- in the last year, bus road calls are down substantially. In December of last year about 90 buses were of the street due to maintenance issues. That number is dropping as the CTA has leased new hybrid buses.

The second key solution is to have drivers leave the terminal on time. This sounds simpler than it is. Some drivers arrive back to the terminal late because of traffic problems. They have to get their break, and then they end up leaving later than scheduled. And sometimes it's just a discipline issue where the driver is poking along and must be disciplined to leave on time.

The third solution is to just fix/change the schedules. The CTA is learning more about true run times with the Bus Tracker GPS in place. So now they are adjusting those schedules and run times to better reflect reality, Huberman said. Drivers recently did a new run pick based on these new schedules.

And speaking of drivers, many folks here asked about drivers who text or eat or use the phone while driving. Huberman encourages you to call (888-968-7282) or write the CTA with the bus number, route, date and time. He confirmed that eating or drinking and using the phone while driving are against the rules. Even wearing a Bluetooth is not allowed while the bus is running.

Comments

As for schedule changes, then stop having the SB Broadway & Sheridan buses leave the Clark/Arthur terminal at virtually the same time!
Both get jammed up on EB Devon all the time, especially at Clark/Devon & then they screw up the NB Clark & WB Devon, Broadway & Sheridan buses. And all the other traffic.
Alternate them 5 minutes apart, is that too complicated?

And start fining or suspending drivers that show up late for their shift changes.
I have been on or passed by numerous buses just sitting at Foster Ave. waiting for the new driver. It happens with Clark, Broadway, Sheridan & Outer Drive Express buses.

>>>
Huberman said he prefers to call the bunching problem a gapping problem because riders hate it when there are big gaps in buses caused by earlier bunching.
<<<

Ummm... The bunching is caused by the gaps. The gaps aren't caused by the bunching. Or at least not the ones that matter.

Let's say you've got A and B bunched up. How did they bunch up? It's not because B is running ahead of schedule, causing a gap behind it. It's because A is running late, and continues to get later because the gap in front of it allows more and more passengers to gather before A gets to the stops.

Theoretically, while B could get ahead of schedule, and cause a gap behind it, that's an easy fix. B can hold back. If B stays on schedule, the bunching of A and B will not affect C.

Of course B could fall further behind if it doesn't pass A, and A keeps getting later, and C could catch-up, too. But as long as C doesn't get ahead of schedule, no gap will form behind it. And we can extrapolate this trhough as many buses as necessary.

Thus the bunching is caused by the gap in front of the bunch. Bunching doesn't cause gaps. Gaps cause bunching.

As for the three points on how to fix the issue, I swear they sound awfully familiar. Could some verbose regular poster here have outlined them before (although perhaps instead of in his 1-2-3 order in 3-2-1 order? Especially since one of the two sub-reasons in 2 are dependent upon 3 being done right?)

To bad the CTA can't have a number that we can send a SMS from our mobiles about problems we are having on the route.

Rusty, while it feels like spin at first, I think its at least an accurate way to portray the problem. No one complains about two or even three busses rolling in at once- we get annoyed by the long waits, huge crowds at the stops, and increased load times created when busses come in long gaps instead of short, regular intervals.

I saw Huberman and some other CTA suit folks at Michigan Ave. & Chicago Ave. during Friday evening's rush hour. They were observing the bus gaps/bunching, I guess. Interestingly when my bus got there we'd just been stuck in a major bunching problem at the Michigan & Huron stop. The entire northbound block there was a wall of buses for like 5 minutes, plus at least two buses passed us in the next lane over. I figured there must have been a broken down bus at the stop but it appears there wasn't, something just slowed everything up.

I was on a 144 that doesn't stop at Chicago Ave. but one of the guys with Huberman flagged us down to let an elderly lady with a cane get on our bus.

Thats good stuff. Yes, it's been outlined here before, and if Rusty's implying he has written such things, he's not the only one. I can't see the point in criticizing Huberman's diction. He clearly gets the point about gaps, and he's outlining the things that can help fix it.

And he's notably not mentioning the idea of slowing down a bus to "solve" the bunch without solving the gap, something that has been mentioned in the past.

I'm somewhat surprised he hasn't mentioned more aggressive supervision of bunched buses to help them move forward and fill the gap. Partly, I'm surprised because I think I experienced it a couple weeks ago, when a bus went flying by me, and moments later, a follower showed up, making me think that some supervisor had suggested that the lead bus actually skip some stops (which is different and somewhat more effective than the leapfrogging that has been the only common effort in the past to address bunching/gaps.)

But I'm okay with what he's said. His plan sounds simple, rather than dramatic. It sounds like something that will not entirely solve gaps, and I think that's realistic. It doesn't make grand claims, but small promises to improve service and to force the few bad drivers to shape up or move out, so that those gaps that have been the fault of CTA personnel will be dramatically minimized.

Very good.

Speaking of this bunching/gapping crap, what is the freakin' deal with the 65 lately, in the mornings its HORRID.

Is there some detour out west? I catch it at Grand/Milwaukee and every day it seems around 915 am, you will wait for like 30 minutes to have 3-4 buses all show up at once going east, its terrible!

So how are they on train drivers clapping and singing and having conversations with another CTA person in the cab with them while operating a train?

Had this happen to me on a red line last week.

KevinB

>>>
Rusty, while it feels like spin at first, I think its at least an accurate way to portray the problem.
<<<

I'm not saying it's spin. I'm saying he's got the cause and effect backwards. Gaps cause bunching. Bunching doesn't cause gaps.

And while I am implying that I've said many... heck, almost all... of the noted things already, I don't want to imply that I was the only one, or even that I was the first one.

It is rather sound-bite-ish to bring-up the gaps whenever someone brings up bunching. But he's right that the problem is the gaps even though his logic is turned-around.

And it really comes down to two kinds of inititives: One to prevent the gaps from forming, and the second to mitigate the impact of the gaps that do form. And prevention has to come before mitigation. That's why I also say that his thrid point should be first.

Realistic schedules have to come first. And the most important factor that's missing is getting the buses to the terminals early enough so that even if they've been delayed, the driver can still take his required break, *and* leave on time.

And if you can't get a bus to the terminal in time for a driver to have his required break, and still leave on time, the you have to consider other methods of getting that bus back into place on the return trip.

Short-turning is an obvious one. Running to the terminous express might be needed as well. Or running express from the terminus to get back into place is another. These are all mitigation techniques that require supervisors who are aware of the postion of all the buses (Bus Tracker), and can make fast, creative decisions.

An alternative would be to have spare buses available to fill the gaps, which would be expensive, and impractical as you wouldn't know far enough in advance where the problem will be. (If you did, you could have fixed that with realistic schedules!)

The other alternative is to do nothing.

But it all starts with his third point: Reaistic and responsible scheduling. Until you put that piece into action, mitigation is a huge battle that will be lost on a daily basis.

Get the bus to the terminal early enough that the driver can take any required breaks, and still leave on the return trip on time, and that's the lion's share of the battle.

Yes, that means less efficiency, and more idle time on the good days. But it's the quest for super-efficiency that causes the gaps that causes the bunching.

Of course that's all been said here before.

This is perhaps a little off-topic and I apologize in advance, especially if this has been discussed before, but I'm curioius as to why bustracker isn't available for the #22. Doesn't that just seem like a no-brainer?

Is this issue of "gaps" being addressed with train runs as well? While I understand that buses are more prone to bunching and there are many more buses than trains, similar standards of accountability should apply.

I'm glad to have that phone number Ron gave out, but if I'm on a bus and the driver is distracting himself with his phone (either talking or texting), I want the bus pulled over NOW, not the driver get a stern talking to once back at the garage. I will still call the police about it before I call the CTA.

"This is perhaps a little off-topic and I apologize in advance, especially if this has been discussed before, but I'm curioius as to why bustracker isn't available for the #22. Doesn't that just seem like a no-brainer?"

No North Park routes will go live on the tracker until all of NP's 4400s and 5800s are retired as they are not equipped with bustracker capabilities. So, you can call it a yes-brainer, since you cannot put up routes that have extreme numbers of ghost buses. That would be just plain unacceptable.

It's also a no-brainer that the NP garage is the last to get the new buses...after all it's not like they actually serve a large part of the North side....and god knows the 22 and 36 aren't important routes...(sarcastic mode on)


KevinB

I don't think I've waited even 10 minutes for a 22 or 36 in months and I take them all the time. The other night I saw three bunched 22s roll through Clark/Foster and I still caught a 4th 22 that arrived less than 5 minutes later. Sure, anecdotally, I could bitch about that time about six months ago that I waited 20 minutes for a 22. But these buses run so frequently that I don't really need the bus tracker for them. These buses also serve Kevin, B of course it is imperative that the tracker be added immediately and a travesty of justice that it is not yet available. Meanwile some poor bastards are stuck having to rely on buses like the Damen 50, which I've waited 30 minutes for on many occasions.

=====
It's also a no-brainer that the NP garage is the last to get the new buses..
=====

Wasn't NP either the first or second to get the new buses, too?

It's not like NP is the red-headed step-child of the garages. It's just this time they decided to start small, and move all the old buses to one place.

Did anyone check out the CTA's newest version of their store -- ctagifts.com??

They must have imported some employees from New York. They don't seem to know that the CTA's train system is called the 'L' - not the Metro, not the "subway" http://www.imageexchange.com/mvx10/engine.cgi?store=cta&cid=5jK2m10NgRuax58f49vk4JeVbi&page=default&body=sku10&sku=25938
as New York is called (regardless of whether their trains are elevated or run in the subway). Here in Chicago, we call it the 'L' even when it runs in the subway, at street level or on the elevated tracks.

And what's a cta Metro map? http://www.imageexchange.com/mvx10/engine.cgi?cid=5jK2m10NgRuax58f49vk4JeVbi&store=cta&page=default&basecat=clothing&return=sku50&body=sku10&sku=26416 Free t-shirt to anyone who can answer.


Emm...I still call it the subway no matter where it runs.

In Chicago, it's called the 'L'.
In New York, it's called the "subway"
In Boston, it's called the 'T'

No matter what you call the system, I can't see paying $6 for a cheesy magnet. Or $44 for a totebag. or $16 for a simple coffee mug.

Do people even buy mousepads anymore? I thought the optical mouse did away with the need for them.

And where are the socks? People still wear socks. I know I do. But they don't have the socks anymore. (Okay. In fairness, the old store was out of stock for years on the socks.)

And what about the collector items?

I hope that this is just a preview, and the good stuff is coming soon.

I think in every city its fair to just call it the 'metro' and everyone will know what you're talking about. Chicago is a slight exception only because we're so fond of calling it the 'el', but really, in any city, the public trans is called the 'metro'.

"I think in every city its fair to just call it the 'metro' and everyone will know what you're talking about. Chicago is a slight exception only because we're so fond of calling it the 'el', but really, in any city, the public trans is called the 'metro'."

Seriously??? I challenge you to spend an hour reading past posts on this blog (or any Chicago transit-related blog) or one of the many official or non official cta-related sites (http://transitchicago.com, http://chicago-l.org, http://transit.elevatedconsulting.com/ , http://ctabrownline.com , etc.)

I doubt you will be able to come up with one informed reference to the CTA system as "metro". Go ahead. Prove me wrong.

I'd be interested in when you actually ride the 22 Clark and see only 5-10 minutes between buses.

I wasn't the one who mentioned the 22 initially. Other people think this is important enough that it should have been one of the first lines put on, excuses aside. If it was important to the CTA they would have adjusted things so that the North Park Garage was one of the first sites complete...you know more bang for the buck like the defense guys say when they buy stuff.


My direct experience with the 22 Clark is that it is horrible. I used it on a daily/weekly basis during non-rush hours most of the time with an occasion rush hour trip Northbound from Monroe/Dearborn near Sears. Even then it was 10-15 minutes or more. I moved a couple weeks ago so unless it is vastly improved in the last couple weeks (as soon as I stopped riding it daily) I'll stick by my experience. My ride is mostly from Clark/Newport to Clark/Diversey both North and South bound.

According to the schedule they took down recently that was on the sign post at Clark/Newport, I could expect to see a rush hour bus every 5-8 minutes, non rush hour and sat/sun 8-12 minutes and 30 minutes night owl.

My sat sun and evening experiences were that I waited on average 15-30 minutes for a bus, sometimes 45 minutes to an hour and then I'd get the 2, 3 or 4 or 5 (once I counted 6 of them) within 1 or 2 minutes of each other (bus bunching). I also tend to be a little gregarious with other people waiting as I like to get a "sanity check" to see if they've had the same experience with the line as I've had. My sanity confirmed about 95%+ of the time sharing a common crappy experience. So unless I've slipped into some time/space bubble or the CTA really is out to get me and the rest of the people I've talked to I'm exactly relating my experience and the people who jumped out of the woodwork to tell me that I'm wrong need to take a chill pill and listen instead of criticizing something that they didn't experience.

KevinB

>>>
I think in every city its fair to just call it the 'metro' and everyone will know what you're talking about.
<<<

I think there are far more cities where if you try calling their rail mass transit system the "metro", you'll get looked at the same way as if you called their limited access highways the "autobaun".

After a moment of thought, people may figure out what you're talking about, but they'll know at best they heard a slip of the tongue from a tourist, or at worst an out-of-towner who doesn't even have the common courtesy to learn something as simple as what the train is called.

[I think there are far more cities where if you try calling their rail mass transit system the "metro", you'll get looked at the same way as if you called their limited access highways the "autobaun". After a moment of thought, people may figure out what you're talking about ...]

I'll go even farther than that - there would be a lot of people who wouldn't figure it out after a moment of thought. I'd bet that there are many, many people out there who have no idea what a 'Metro' is. Unless you've done some international traveling, or make it a point to read about transit, you probably have no idea that many train systems are called 'metros'.

"I waited on average 15-30 minutes for a bus, sometimes 45 minutes to an hour and then I'd get the 2, 3 or 4 or 5 (once I counted 6 of them) within 1 or 2 minutes of each other ..."

KevinB, at this point, I'll bid you a fond farewell. I think you live in a different reality than the rest of us. In ten years in Chicago, I never waited over 40 minutes for a bus other than that one time at 2:00 a.m. for the Lawrence back in 2002. You're exaggerating and lying to yourself. I'm sure you'll enjoy complaining even more now that you've made the unwise choice of doubling your commute by moving to Rogers Park.

On the one hand, I'll toss in an anecdote that supports KevinB's assertion, when, at 12:30am this weekend, I saw (twice!) southbound 22s bunched together only a couple miles south of the beginning of their run at Howard.

On the other hand, as someone who actually studies travel behavior for a living, I'll point out that multiple studies show that people waiting for the bus typically overestimate their wait time by approximately 50% - with such perception significantly reduced by the presence of systems like Bus Tracker, even if the actual wait times and service reliability are unchanged). Given KevinB's reputation for being a whiner who perceives everything short of Mussolini-style precision to be a conspiracy to make his life miserable, I think it not unreasonable to assume he overestimates his wait time by a bit more than 50%. Consider these factors, and his wait times are suddenly not so different than mike's.

So mike is probably right as to what "true" waiting times are like for these bus routes. But KevinB is also correct in a way, in that even a 20 minute wait can be agonizingly long and frustrating when you have no confidence or knowledge as to the actual arrival time of the next bus.

Unless verizon is lying about the time, I've added notes on my phone with time I've got to the bus stop and arrival times. I do keep track of these things. I have more than a few neighbors as well who have similar 22 experiences as well. Are they lying too? Besides, if there's nothing to hide, then getting bus tracker should show everything is perfect in 22 and 36 land. I can't wait to see all the overlapping buses and big honking gaps if it ever gets online....lol

Also, as soon as all my computer equipment is ready I have a nice IP camera that will go in a nice window that overlooks the bus stop at Howard and Clark (1 stop from it's origin point at Howard St red line station. We'll see how on-time it is leaving it's origin point.


As far as my new commute, It adds about 12 minutes to my time and the purple line express seems to get priority at the belmont/clark junction most of the time so I actually gain a few minutes not taking the red from Addison like I used to. If the 3-track ever gets finished, I'm pretty sure I'll be a happy camper with the Purple/Red combo.

I figure once we get back on 4 tracks, my commute will be 12 minutes from Howard to Belmont, and 20 or less from Belmont to State/Lake, so I'll actually be spending 8 minutes less than I do right now. If I can do the whole thing in 35 mins or less, happy camper time.

But them I'm sure as the day is long that the CTA will throw some other wrinkle in there to make it as crappy as it is now(or worse).

KevinB

Regardless of how long the wait is, once on board I always appreciate that the 22 and/or 36 consistently provide more entertainment/amusement/WTF-ness per mile than just about any other route in the system. The 81 is a serious challenger for top honors these days, however.

I think if people walk around here referring to the L as the Metro, people will think they're talking about Metra.

And yes, I would like the CTA store to sell socks again.

Martha:

Yep, there ought to be an entertainment surcharge for the sheer WTF-ness on those two lines...some of the things I've seen, heard, smelled should be in a book...lol


KevinB

Mike: Obviously you've never ridden either the 4, 22, 36 or 155 buses.
I have waited many times for them for over 30 minutes.
Back in November 2006, I gave up after 40 minutes of waiting at Broadway & Granville for a NB 36 & started walking. I got to Clark & Devon 20 minutes later as 6, that's right 6 Broadway buses pulled up to the corner in a row. It was a Friday afternoon. I once waited 45 minutes on a Sunday afternoon in Feb. for a 155 at Devon/Kedzie, when 5 pulled in a row.
I have waited numerous times for over 30 minutes for a SB 4 at Jackson/Michigan or at 55th & Cottage Grove in either direction.
And always seeing bunched up ones going in the opposite direction.
So many people were waiting for one at Jackson once, the supervisor in the shed there changed a 3 to a 4 after we waited for over 30 minutes & hadn't seen a NB 4 to be short turned.

[If the 3-track ever gets finished...]

This sums up KevinB in a nutshell, I think.

As we all know, work has been sped up in recent months so that it will be completed earlier. You can see, with your own eyes, progress on a daily basis when you pass the Belmont and Fullerton stations. Except for scenarios involving untimely asteroid strikes or giant lizards arising out of Lake Michigan, there's no uncertainty about whether or not the 3-track work will get finished.

Yet in his mind, it's a question of 'if' it's ever finished. I simply do not understand this way of thinking. No doubt I'm triggering more woe-is-me "death by a thousand cuts" talk here, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

Oh, now UCC, the other resident curmudgeon and conspiracy theorist, is calling me a liar. Sniffle. Why the hell would I lie about the CTA? Believe me, there's plenty to complain about. But I'm sick of people exaggerating and it's usually the same handful of people. And they just come here with their nicknames and shout at a wall. Some people could catch the 22 perfectly every day for five years and wait 20 minutes for it three times and complain until the end of time about it. I submit that these people *enjoy* having something to complain about.

Well, gee, I could point to the re-opening of the Washington St station that still has the signs that say "Re-Opening in Fall 2008". When is that gonna happen? Is never good for you?

I'm only complaining about stuff that's wrong and important(at least to me and maybe other people counting some of the supporting comments) and needs to be fixed.

It sorta cancels out the Ron Fanboys like Mike, strannix, etc all who live in their Pollyana existence where everything is perfect and all the buses, trains, etc run on time, perfect and Ron is the savior. Get off the cross guys, we need the wood....

I swear if they didn't have US resident critics to complain about, they wouldn't have anything to say..

I deal with line behavior every day in my job. People do exaggerate waiting times and I'm the one who has to track the times down when there's a complaint. 90+% of the time, the customer is not right. However, the other 10% is spot on the money. These are the guys like me who actually document issues and have the numbers to back it up.

If there's a problem, I do my best to get it fixed, not give some lame ass excuse about how we can't do that because it would be too complex and we can't explain it to you since we didn't really do the due diligence in the first place to see if we could do it another way so we would inconvenience our customers the least. After all customer satisfaction os not something that the CTA really considers important. If they did, things would be much, much different. Much better probably too...

Hell, I even did a spreadsheet once with all my extra time I was spending between belmont and fullerton to with the times it took me from the time I left addison station until I left fullerton on the SB rush hour commute. It was interesting to say the least. Even did a nice little color chart detailing it. Yep, I do have to much time on my hands, but you know, that's courtesy of the CTA and 3 track. Had a lot of extra time waiting for signals and even more through the slow zones in the tunnel.

KevinB

Oh, Mike, welcome to the wonderful world that is the futility of calling out KevinB and UC-c on their curmudgeonry.

But I largely agree with you - one must put these things in perspective: In the five years that I owned a car, it broke down in the middle of traffic three times. However, I didn't curse the General Motors corporation or any shop that had ever worked on my vehicle as being both hopelessly incompetent and utterly unreliable.

Sometimes busses break down. Usually, rush hour traffic creates big gaps between busses and waits become long.

But in all fairness, traffic accidents on the interstates cause suburban commuters to sit in bumper-to-bumper traffic for two hours or more at least as often (and possibly more so) as some unlucky CTA rider has to wait 45 minutes for a bus. Long, impatient waits are not solely the province of the CTA. Sometime $hit happens.

Travel delays, whether bus or train and no matter how egregious, are not nusiances that could be completely eliminated "if only the CTA would do something about it." They're endemic. They will always happen, if not everyday, no matter how much the CTA promises "safe, clean, reliable, etc." The $2 we pay to get us on the train (or bus) certainly doesn't entitle us to a problem-less, at break-neck-speed travel experience.

[Well, gee, I could point to the re-opening of the Washington St station that still has the signs that say "Re-Opening in Fall 2008". When is that gonna happen? Is never good for you?]

And this has to do with anything how?

[Get off the cross guys, we need the wood....]

Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best...

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

If someone is sitting in their car in a traffic jam, they are:
1. Sitting down.
2. Out of the rain or sun.
3. in heat or air conditioning.
When waiting for a bus, only #1 is possible & then only at certain places.

I'm not imagining how long I'm waiting for the bus, I look at my watch & know exactly how long! If I get to the stop at 3:30 & there's no bus at 3:50, it's a 20 minute wait & counting!
And it's not 3 times, it's dozens of times.
And I didn't call you a liar, I merely stated how long I've had to wait at times.
But you certainly called me a liar & that makes you the troll!

strannix:

[And this has to do with anything how?]

It had to do with my comment about if the 3 track work ever gets done and the subsequent comment that was made about my outlook on life.

It's the old fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

I'm mostly a pessimist. When things go well or better than expected, I'm pleasantly surprised.

An optimist is frequently disappointed on the other hand and must live with that disapointment. :)

KevinB

[It's the old fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.]

Fine, but again, you can see the progress at Fullerton and Belmont with your own eyes. I seriously can't stress this point enough. YOU CAN SEE THE PROGRESS WITH YOUR OWN EYES! Try looking out the window sometime instead of staring at your watch, fretting about the minutes ticking by.

Just thought I'd cast my vote that a 40 minute wait for the 22 is BS. I certainly never waited that long 3-4 years ago when I took it regularly.

Just because you never waited 40 minutes for a 22 doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Or don't trees falling in forests when no one is around make a sound?

And there isn't any reason to not have bus Tracker for the 22 by now.
All of the buses assigned to Clark St. are the New Flyers.

All of the TMC 4400s apparently are gone.

UCc...says who? I'm almost positive I saw a 4400 assigned to the 22 within the past week.

Just because you aren't seeing any 4400's doesn't mean they're gone. Or don't trees falling in forests.... well, you know the rest.

Hmmm. I wonder if you might be waiting 40 minutes because you're ignoring the 4400's that are passing? ;)

See rusty, you always misconstrue what I write. Or maybe you can't read very well! I said I haven't seen any 4400s on Clark St. I didn't say they're gone from the CTA, just not being used on Clark as far as I can see.
All I see are 1500-1800 series New Flyers.
And I like the LED interior lighting on the 1800s.

I can vouch for frequently waiting for the 22 or 36 for 20+ minutes (mind you, this was back in 2003-2006 when I lived in that neighborhood). They may have improved travel times since then.

In response to someone who said they never waited 40 minutes for a 22, UCC Said...
====
Just because you never waited 40 minutes for a 22 doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
====

Then said...
====
All of the buses assigned to Clark St. are the New Flyers.
All of the TMC 4400s apparently are gone.
====

And I misconstrued something by wanting to apply the same logic of "Just because you never [insert event] doesn't mean it doesn't happen" to that statement??

How does it work, then?

Just because something doesn't happen to someone else, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but if it doesn't happen to UCC, that's proof positive that it doesn't happen?

I don't think I misconstrued anything. I simply pointed out some very obviously faulty logic. (And calling it just "faulty logic" is being generous.)

I've seen alot of work at the Belmont and Fullerton stations...what I've not seen is things like umm, roofs over the riders so they don't get wet while waiting for a train, I've seen dangerous wood planks waiting for the "glass blocks"....

Evidently it didn't occur that rain and snow might be an issue and now they've had to go back and "re-engineer" for shelter.

Someone else mentioned it too, poor design on these and other stations. I've previously talked about 2 other shining examples of poor design, the Brown line Addison stop (pinpoint accuracy so that you can exit the bus between obstacles or sticking out in the street so far that you block traffic ) and the Sedgwick station (5 entrance/exit turnstiles with no exit only turnstiles) which make it extremely difficult if you are going against the rush.

Most of these have been the result of not adequately planning for the possibility of not getting all the money for the remodel/refurb...you know, having a "plan b" if the gold plated version doesn't fly.

I'm sure there are more examples at other stations, but those are the ones I've had direct experience with.

KevinB

"Dangerous wood planks?"

CTA platforms have been made of wood planks for the last 100 years. I'm pretty sure the wood up there at Belmont and Fullerton could last a couple years.

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