CTA Tattler

It's time for the CTA to post the photo policy in every station & on the platforms so the cops & station attendants see it.
That's assuming they know how to read!

Good, informative post that clarifies photo taking on the CTA. This blogger mentioned the same type of negative experience that happened to her. She even checked with a cop friend to make sure there was nothing illegal about it. Turns out the CTA workman was just being a bully.

http://tamalechica.blogspot.com/2008/09/day-of-dentist-and-julius-meinl-break.html

I like how they just THINK someone is up to no good if they take a photograph. Like the person taking the photo is a muckraker trying to catch them in the act of doing nothing. Hey CTA guys, I got a tip for you: It ain't that hard to get a photo of you doing nothing.

The incidents reported by tamalechica on her blog and in the post referenced by Kevin the Moderator are two entirely different situations that both revolve around taking photographs on CTA property. Tamalechica was simply taking photos for her blog when she was set upon by a CTA worker who may not have been clear on the rules and acted like a bully. The incident JB reported in the post referenced by Kevin is a classic case of two wrongs don't make a right. Yes, the bus operator was an ass to talk to JB that way. JB, however, chose to escalate the incident by further getting in the operator's face with his camara phone. Unfortunately, the bus operator handled that really poorly, another passenger called 911 and a police report was taken. I hope JB forwarded the police report to CTA, but I also hope he/she resolves to handle any future incidents with bus operators differently. There are lots of ways to report an unruly bus operator without having the employee's badge number. The route, time, run number and bus number are sufficient to report the employee and can be gathered surreptitiously without further inciting an already angry individual. I've done it several times and always get the response: "thank you for contacting us; here's the incident number; your complaint will be forwarded to the supervisor at the garage" blah, blah, blah, blah....

On a non-confrontational photography on the bus note: I was on the X49 a few weeks ago and noticed a leftover ad for the Jeff Koons exhibition at the MCA on the ceiling of the bus. It was a picture of one of Koons' ridiculous metal balloon animals. It made me laugh after a hard day at work and I wanted to preserve its silliness. I snapped a pic with my phone. The bus operator asked in a curious, non-threatening way why I was taking a picture of the ceiling of the bus. I showed him the photo at the next red light and he was interested to know if Koons' bunny was really art or not. The answer to that question is even more vague than various CTA employee's interpretations of the very clear photography policy.

Back in the spring, after already missing a connecting bus (due to a #22 driver stopping to gab with a friend on the street for five minutes) on the way to a class and having to walk the remaining two miles because another one never showed up while I did the "keep walking to the next stop until a bus comes" game, I was in a Damon bus on the way back home when the driver pulled over, went into a convenience store, and bought a drink -- just a few stops away from the end of his route, where there are stores all over the place.

Funny thing is...I had my digital camera with me, and I turned on the video mode and took moving footage of him returning with a drink. I was proud to put it on YouTube...until i got severely flamed, with people (including someone identifying herself as a CTA bus driver and calling people who do this "trash" -- nice way to treat your customers, eh?) claiming what I did was illegal...

The truth is, taking photos on public areas of CTA -- or ANYWHERE that's accessible by the public -- is, by law, 100% legal. You can take a picture of the hot chick across the street. You can take pictures of the police station. You can photograph a funeral procession...all without asking permission. It's the law. Public place means basically means anything's up for grabs in terms of photography; when you're in public, you're giving up your privacy.

Anybody see the segment on Fox News about Ron asking for Police Pension service years for his years at CTA and the Mayor's Office? Pardon the ugly link, but it's below. He says that his work on safety and security at CTA is akin to being a police officer. Um, not really.

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7540020&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Wow. I'm (almost) speechless.

If his job as CTA President is so much like being a police officer, then all the CTA workers out in the field ought to be made part of the Police pension fund, too. Heck, they're even more like police officers than he is!

His time in the Emergency Government Office, maybe. But even that's a stretch. His time as CTA President, no fricken way.

Please note how he can keep a straight face while he's talking about this, and remember those expressions next time he's putting spin on something CTA-related.

How many arrests has he made?

There is the guy he escorted off the Red Line back in March. That should count for about 10 minutes' pension credit.

While the pension grab isn't technically illegal, it certainly is selfish bordering on immoral at a time when the municipal pensions, especially CPD's are grossly underfunded. I wonder how CTA rank and file who voted for pension concessions to help CTA balance its budget might feel about this attempt at double dipping? Just because several aldermen who used to be on the police force have pulled this trick and been approved by the police pension board doesn't make it ok. I think Huberman thought no one would ever find out about his meeting yesterday, except for the usual insiders. What was it he used to say back at OEMC about cameras making the city safer?

I'm a CTA el-train operator.I have seen photos on this web site of CTA employees who clearly don't want their photo taken but Brian Hagy and Kymberly Janisch will still take them and if the CTA employee complains they will report them or write about it here.Before you start ripping on me most of the CTA employees are hard working people.Go take pictures outside the CTA headquarters of all the office workers that just walk the streets you can tell who they are the wear their IDs around their necks.An el-train now does the work of 3 and a CTA office worker has 3 to do the work of 1.

Elmo, your bosses apparently set a policy you don't like. Don't aim that problem outward at the public.

An informative post. I remember being on a purple line train a while back and the operator of the train, who had walked out into the public area of the first car to open the door for some track workers, very sternly instructed some tourists that "taking photographs is NOT allowed anywhere in the CTA" and insisted that they stop taking pictures immediately. And they were just taking pictures out the window of whatever scenery was going by!

Seems like some education on the policy might be helpful.

Can I come to your job stand over you and when you do something wrong take a picture of you and post it on the internet.

When you are in public, you do not have an expectation of privacy. If you don't want your picture taken while you are working, the answer is simple: Don't get a job where you have to work in public. Change jobs, and get one where you work in private, and can have an expectation of privacy.

While the current administration has taken some creative liberties with the Constitution, it's not going to be rewritten because a few CTA employees who are working in public want to pretend they are in their own little private world.

So if you don't want your picture taken, get out of the public eye.

Elmo--If you decide to do your job badly where your paying customers can see you, especially actions that put them in danger, and they respond by making a record of it, explain to me exactly how that puts the customers in the wrong and you in the right?

When I say "you", of course I don't mean the hard-working ones. If you guys are doing what you are supposed to do, there won't be any problem, will there? So don't defend the bad apples, please.

Not everyone who takes photographs on or of CTA property is trying to document employee malfeasance. I can't speak for anyone else, but I just like the goofy and ironic crap I see, for instance the Koons bunny I mentioned above or a southbound Red Line train with a Sox ad wrap pulling out of Addison with Wrigley Field in the background. The el is an iconic part of our cityscape and people like to take pictures of it. There are over a hundred surveillance cameras at my place of employment. I know I'm never alone. There are plenty of surveillance cameras on CTA property too, so the expectation of privacy is a moot point.

My point was a few weeks ago on this web page there was a picture of an el-train operator at the window of his motor cab operating the door handles when a camera was put in his face,he lifted his arm and blocked the shot.Instead of the photographer thinking mad shot she posted it with the intent that he has something to hide.This past summer at taste of Chicago gang banging punk taunted the police to get a reaction that they can capture on their video cell phones.I think that is the intent of Kymberly and Brian to get a reaction that they can record. By all means if a CTA employee is doing wrong report them, but if you distract the operator or block the operator view of the platform you have become a problem.I'm proud of this city and the rich history of rail roading in Chicago and will pose for a photo but these would-be paparatzo are an annoyance. Go up to anyone on the street put a camera in their face and take their picture they may react and they have the right to react.

I agree with you about that particular photo, Elmo. It was intrusive. Train operators have enough to focus on without that added distraction.

I always carry a copy of the CTA Photography Policy in my bag just in case I get hassled.

In response to Martha's post. Yes, you are right, I did not handle the situation well. However, I didn't get in the driver's "face", I snapped a photo of the badge on his arm. However, he already had a bad attitude, based on how he addressed me the moment he (reluctantly) let me board his bus. I didn't think I was escalating the situation but I'll think twice before letting that happen again. He is obviously mentally unbalanced and I had no idea he would become violent nor threaten to take me "the f*ck out" if I "assaulted" him again :)

Martha, P.S. Just the week before my cell phone photo incident, I was playing Tourist in my Own Town and snapped a photo out the bus window of the Trump Tower. The bus driver (another 151) loudly stated, "Photography is NOT allowed on the bus". I was shooting out the window, fer crying out loud! Why the driver took offence is beyond me. How can he enforce that with all of the tourists who visit our photogenic city and simply want to document their trip? Or with me, who move here from the West Coast because I love the architecture in Chicago (among other picturesque things?) It simply makes no sense why drivers take issue with cameras, even when they're not the subject of the photo. P.S. During my cell phone photo rage incident, several busy-bodies got involved: one lady butted in and said, "Now you're in even more trouble than the driver. If I was you, I'd get off the bus and run home now before the police come!" "Even more trouble" than the driver who physically wrested my personal item from my hand and threatened me? Gah!

[While the current administration has taken some creative liberties with the Constitution, it's not going to be rewritten because a few CTA employees who are working in public want to pretend they are in their own little private world.]

A little overdramatic, don't you think? I don't see Elmo arguing that this should be against the law.

At any rate, while I obviously agree that this is and should be legal, I still think that photographing or taping CTA personnel is childish and intrusive in all but the most extreme cases. In almost every case, I should think a written complaint is an adequate remedy to the situation.

CTA personnel, of course, have an obligation to treat the public with respect and courtesy. But I don't think members of the public have a moral right to act like boors just because of some (real or imagined) slight. Do onto others, etc.

[If you guys are doing what you are supposed to do, there won't be any problem, will there?]

Please. As if there's a) no unreasonabnle members of the general public out there, and b) no room for judgment as to what is and is not acceptable behavior.

I'm sorry guys, but I'm 100% with Elmo on this one. Unless operators are doing something genuinely dangerous or otherwise extreme, a written complaint is a far more reasonable action to take.

If you liked the Fox news story about Huberman's pension grab, you'll really enjoy this amateur video from behind the scenes at the same pension board meeting. The sound quality isn't great, but it's worth watching.

http://www.youtube.com/v/MgyQhiIJCeshl=enfs=1

That link was messed-up. I think you meant this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgyQhiIJCes

On the one hand, even a "public" figure like Elmo has some right to privacy even while on the job. If he's eating his lunch in a restaurant, some goof with a camera can come in and snap his picture because he's a CTA employee?

That being said, what created this sense of (for lack of a better word) paranoia among CTA employees that they (if they all believe as Elmo) think that everyone taking a picture of them on the job is trying to document their "mistakes"? What's going on behind those doors?

[What's going on behind those doors?]

Probably nothing at all. A lack of information seems to be a leading cause of the problem here. I'd guess that CTA personnel have been largely left to their own devices on this one.

Either that, or the CTA's just out to get us because we take pictures. But I wouldn't call that 'paranoia,' at least on their end...

Elmo--I wasn't aware of the paparazzi game. If there's a trend out there to take pictures just to try to make people look bad when they've done nothing wrong, then that's another notch lower that public behavior has dropped because people aren't willing to use technology responsibly. I guess it comes down to, do we see the other person as a fellow human trying to get along, or as a target to take out our own problems on? All we can do, I guess, is try to articulate better norms, shame the idiots, and let people know not to believe everything they see.

Why are you taking a picture of the bus/train operator, if not to try to get them in trouble? Most of the stories start out like, "The bus driver did such-and-such that made me mad, so I got out my camera to take a picture of him to report him, and he got angry! I can't believe it! All I was trying to do was get him in trouble, and he didn't react kindly to it.."

Joe Blow--let's break that down, shall we? The sequence of events starts with an employee doing something they are not supposed to do, resulting in bad service or even danger to passengers. In other words, it's HIS bad. Are you saying he should get away with it? Do you not understand that the "trouble" starts with that person's decision to do what he did--not with the person who reports it, which I see as a responsible action--to get rid of the bad apples that give the others a bad rep, maybe save lives! Tough bananas if he doesn't like being reported. What about the rest of us--the ones who don't react kindly to bad service and danger--doesn't it matter how we feel? Are you saying the employee is entitled to do whatever he wants because he might not like it if he's busted for it? Is it OK with you to be texting and crashing, like in California, and anyone who reports it is a nasty spoilsport?

dauber -- last summer I was on a northbound 50 Damen bus, loaded up with two heavy bags and a heavy backpack; I'd been shopping at the Paulina Meat Market for a cookout I was having that weekend. My walk home from the last stop (in front of the bakery) isn't too bad, but the driver on this particular trip decided to kick everyone off the bus in front of the McDonald's at Bryn Mawr because he needed to get some dinner.

I've gotten the feeling the route isn't too popular with experienced drivers (twice this year along I've had to give directions to new drivers), and some of the drivers I've had have actually been great, but unfortunately there seem to be more drooling morons than on other routes.

(It's also amazing how many drivers tell me "No, Hollywood IS the last stop, and you need to get off," when it isn't and I don't. But somehow, they always win.)

There are plenty of reasons to take pictures on or around the CTA, and if you take enough pictures, employees are bound to be in some of them. But so what? They were in public, and they have no expectation of privacy.

As for people going around trying to capture photographic evidence of wrong-doing, as we all should have learned after Rodney King is that photographs, and even videos, can be interperted many different ways.

So if you're afraid that a photograph of you while you're not doing anything wrong will be interpreted as you doing something wrong, then you don't have the temperment to have a job that requires you to work in public.

Example, I'm looking at the September photo on the CTA's 2008 historic calendar. It sort of looks to me like the driver of the car in front of the bus is about to mow-down a pedestrian while being distracted by the pretty girl on the curb. Is that photograph evidence of inattentive driving? No. My interpretation might be 100% wrong.

But if you're afraid that every photograph with you in it will make you look like the driver of the car, and that everyone who'll see it will think you're a bad driver, then you need to stay out of public settings as much as possible until you can get some counsiling. A front-line job with the CTA is the wrong job considering your irrational fears.

I might also note that anyone who works in public faces these same issues. From the street sweeper driver who's standing next to his rig while the water tank fills, to the police officer sitting in his car writing a report. There are plenty of people out there facing the same issue of photos that make them look like they're not working when they're, in fact, doing reasonable things.

CTA workers aren't special. There are some who *think* they're special, and will make-up some rules against taking their picture, and then try to enforce those rules. But they're not special.

Any CTA employee who attempts to violate the civil rights of a photographer should face discipline. And that's what it is. It isn't just being rude. It isn't that they bullied someone. It may not be the most important civil rights violation ever imagined, but none the less, it is a civil rights violation, and should not be taken lightly by CTA management.

In fact, written policy aside, if the CTA doesn't take the reported violations seriously, they are establishing a pattern that could later come back to bite themselves in the butt.

If Ron really does enjoy looking at the pictures here, he should make sure that his employees are aware of what the policy really is, and not let some rogue, camera-shy employees create a common practice that's contrary to the written policy.

"Example, I'm looking at the September photo on the CTA's 2008 historic calendar."

Rusty, you realize it's October now, right?

"It sort of looks to me like the driver of the car in front of the bus is about to mow-down a pedestrian while being distracted by the pretty girl on the curb. Is that photograph evidence of inattentive driving? No. My interpretation might be 100% wrong."

Nope, my money says you're right.

Wait.... July is over already???

Rusty, dude, have you been waiting for the 22 for that long? :D

I'm not leaving until I see the 22 is getting close to my stop on Bustracker, and as far as I can see, there aren't any approaching my stop yet. ;)

Rusty, do you see anyone arguing against what you wrote? Just curious.

CC Writer: Amen, brother!

Rusty: "Any CTA employee who attempts to violate the civil rights of a photographer should face discipline. And that's what it is. It isn't just being rude. It isn't that they bullied someone. It may not be the most important civil rights violation ever imagined, but none the less, it is a civil rights violation, and should not be taken lightly by CTA management." DOUBLE AMEN!

Is there a policy for those who may choose to shoot video on CTA property?

C C Writer, let's break that down, shall we? You feel the driver is in the wrong about something, so you whip out your camera and directly confront them with the fact that you're going to take their picture and report them, threatening their job/livelihood...and you wonder why they might get a little upset?! There are ways to handle a situation like that without forcing a tense encounter, but openly declaring your intention to cause trouble (justified or not) for the driver isn't one of them..

===
...but openly declaring your intention to cause trouble...
===

Ummm, no.

It's openly declaring your intent to REPORT trouble that has already happened. Reporting someone, whether with evidence or without, is not *causing* trouble.

And if the situation is such that the employee still feels that they handled it right, it shouldn't bother them that their picture is being snapped.

The threat to their job/livelihood does not come from someone snapping a picture of them. The threat already came from their actions. If they want to seal that fate by then doing something else stupid, that's just another poor choice that they're making.

You know what they could do really easily? Put the CTA photography policy into ad cards and slip them onto every bus and every car of every train. And I'm sure some drivers and motormen would make sure some of them got lost, but they wouldn't be able to get *all* of them. And if there were a little publicity push behind it, get it onto a news station here or there -- call it an "updated policy" if they have to, even if not a word has changed, although it does sound as if clarifications are needed here and there -- suddenly there'd be a level playing field.

It's not *causing* problems, but it definitely can *escalate* problems. A little diplomacy can go a long way...

just tell the employess who are hassling you to shut up and do their job

I got yelled at tonight for violating the CTA photo policy this evening. I was coming home and came up the escalator this evening to see puddles of standing water in the main area with water leaking from the metal cylinder in the roof. I pulled out my handy dandy cell phone and got a picture of the floor and the leaking driplets still hanging from the metal tube in the ceiling.

I then had a customer service rep actually move from the safety of her glass box to scream at me to stop taking pictures that I was violating CTA policy. and I told her I was doing no such thing. I told her if she didn't like it, to get her supervisor. She then brought over this large plainclothes gentlemen who proceeded to sell me the same thing...I told him that I could take pictures in the public area and he said inside the fare area was not a "public area", it was CTA property.

This is a freaking joke. I asked to see a supervisor but there was not one "availble" I'm going to stop at the supervisors office in the AM and see if I can get these people on the same page...sheesh.

BTW, this is the same area that has leaked since the "new" station opened, the one that I mentioned personally to Ron at the coffee and the customer service line TWICE. What does it take to get them to fix something this dangerous directly in the path of all incoming outgoing customers?

KevinB

Also, I think the problem comes into what the CTA defines as "public". It's not spelled out in the online CTA policy on the website and only after digging did Kevin get one the VPs to "define" what public areas actually meant.

Searching through the Tattler archives:

In further email discussions, Gaffney clarified that "public areas are the areas where you enter the station, pay your fare, and wait for the trains. Non-public areas are any storage rooms, work areas, ends of platforms that are blocked off to public access (such as in subways), tracks, etc."

The low level employees seem to think that anything past the fare box is not "public" anymore.

It seems that adding that wording to the policy on the website would go a long way to preventing problems...

KevinB